enneagram type eight in health » Enneagram Paths Coaching

Enneagram Eights: Carly Bergey & Greta Sutherland

Posted on May 4, 2020May 5, 2020 by melissakircher

“One of the greatest regrets in life is being what others would want you to be, rather than being yourself.” ― **Shannon L. Alder**

Good morning Enneagram Paths people! I hope you are safe and well. I’m sending out love, presence, and light to you all during these heavy times.

Today, we finish the Type Eight series with two amazing people in the house! Carly Bergey and Greta Sutherland have graciously allowed me to interview them and ask what it’s like to be a Type Eight. Their answers put me in the mind, body, and emotions of an Eight and are so helpful! It’s great to hear from real people about how the Enneagram is impacting their lives. Thank you both for sharing your thoughts and experiences!

Carly Bergey

1. In what ways do you use your easy access to anger for good? What are some healthy outlets (when not saving the world or protecting others) for your anger? I tend to be a person that speaks up about things, like that parent who continues to break the rules at the school drop-off line, or when a person glued to their phone is obviously blocking foot traffic on Main Street. It could be something bigger, like calling out a racist joke at work or when someone “accidentally” gropes me on a bus. I will speak up about it. The slowly simmering anger inside me is ready to appropriately respond and take action.

2. What do Eights look for in others? What do we have to live up to? Where do we fall short? As an Enneagram Eight, I need my people to match my intensity. In my safe inner circle, I want others to celebrate, grieve, and fight with me. In social situations, I secretly hope others will not wither when I bring my A-game. I can be intense and wish more people had the confidence to really engage, disagree, even make fun of me.

3. What are three things you wished people understood about Eights? I want people to understand that what you perceive as anger from me may not be. My deep desire is to authentically connect, but sometimes, intensity becomes a substitute for intimacy. Something made us grow up too fast. The origin of our behavior is being unsafe at some point. I have a deeply tender core part of my identity, and assuming the best in me goes a long way.

4. Do you have any spiritual practices and does your Enneagram number influence what you’re drawn to spiritually? Meditation, quiet, grounding practices like yoga help me.

5. What happens to your closest relationship when you move in stress to your Arrow of Type Five? What happens to your closest relationships when you move in health/integration to your Arrow of Type Two? I communicate with my partner when I need to go into what I call “whale mode” (toward Type Five). I enjoy isolation, but don’t want to be forgotten. My partner will check in on me over the course of time and ask how I’m feeling. However, our general rule is: I don’t want to talk and I want to be alone. When moving toward Type Two, I tend to think about others more than myself, put their needs above myself, and try to do tangible works to make them feel happy.

6. Speak about what it’s like to be in the Body Triad. How does your body absorb and process the daily life of your existence? For me, in stress, this means my body tends to communicate to me and that’s how I have honed my self awareness over the years. It starts in my body (and voice) and that literally helps me realize I need to reset in some way. The really interesting thing is to reverse stress, I also use body and voice work to access my nervous system so I can self-regulate. Sensory activities, humming, breath work helps a ton.

7. What do you love about your number? What is frustrating about your number? I love going through life with confidence. I truly empathize with those who are lacking in it and much of my work involves giving away as much confidence as I can. I do feel frustrated by how much anger I feel at times.

8. What do you think would happen if you were to let the soft, loving, vulnerable side of your heart be known to the world at large? The memoir I wrote is deeply emotional and vulnerable. I discuss my voice loss and recovery and those of my patients in it. I do hope if it ever releases, that I will be known for being loving and tender in addition to strong. That would make me very proud and speak to so much self care I’ve done over the years to be safe enough to do so.

9. What is your advice for parents of Type Eight children? As an Eight, I longed for the modeling of emotional regulation from my parents. Big feelings need big patience. On the flip side, Eights need trust. Trust that they can do the big thing they want to do. Give them tools to blow everyone away. Type Eight kids can start businesses, advocacy campaigns, clubs. We are natural leaders. Let us lead. Especially Eight girls. Show them they have a sit at the table.

10. What do the words yield, affection, and empowerment mean to you these days?

Yield: My first thought is corrupt powers need to do this.

Affection: It makes me slightly sad. I always need more than I seem to let on.

Empowerment: If leadership in US doesn’t give it, we will take it.

Carly Bergey, M.A., CCC-SLP is a speech-language pathologist and writer with expertise in voice care. A rich, musical inheritance passed to her from hard-working gigging parents. This lead to the study of music at Belmont University and eventually a love of the science of voice as well. Now Carly uses her voice for work and play, helping other voices speak themselves into their stories more fully with authenticity and health. Her memoir details the transformative work of finding one’s voice and is currently seeking publication. She provides individual coaching sessions in person and via zoom. Contact her through www.carlybergey.com

Greta Sutherland

1. In what ways do you use your easy access to anger for good? What are some healthy outlets (when not saving the world or protecting others) for your anger? This question is difficult since most all my answers come back to helping an ‘underdog’ in some form or another. For example: I got involved in the political process in 2008 and managed a field office to elect Obama. I poured a lot of energy into that process but…it was my anger over the lack of equal treatment for lower income peoples that instigated my involvement. I saw the vast discrepancy in education and work availability where I lived and decided to take action. But that was using my anger for standing up for people I felt needed my action by helping elect a candidate I felt was qualified to make serious change. Your disclaimer in the question made it very difficult to answer! 😊

I’ll answer the question this way: when anger fills me up, I release it by tackling a project I’ve been putting off. Undirected anger often helps re-direct my procrastination. Whether it’s cleaning or researching or taking a walk – anger almost always subsides when I USE MY HANDS and my body in a physical way. I’d love to say I take a 25-mile run when I get angry, but nah! I have many hobbies that are a way of engaging my hands which in turn frees my thoughts to sort themselves out. One of my favorite activities since I was a kid has been mowing the grass. It’s physical. It’s solitary. And it releases pent up angst as well as gives plenty of time to process through confusing feelings.

2. What do Eights look for in others? What do we have to live up to? Where do we fall short? It certainly doesn’t feel like an admirable thing to admit, but when I sniff out weakness of any kind in another person, I get frustrated and dismissive and have to consciously pay attention to anything they say because my tendency is to immediately write them off. I’m working hard on this. When a friend asks if I want to get together for coffee and we have the time and place decided in three texts or less – I’m ecstatic and have a high respect for that person. But when someone is ‘overly considerate’ and gives me a lot of ‘I don’t care, whatever you want’, it makes my insides twist.

Honesty is of paramount importance to an Eight. ‘Little white lies’ equate to trickery which means you’re questioning my intelligence. To find out someone has been dishonest with me sticks with me and it’s hard to ever trust them again. Likewise, when someone is straight up honest with me, my respect for them (even if I disagree with what they’re saying) increases exponentially. Along these lines, passive-aggressive behavior is another form of dishonesty to an Eight. We value direct communication, so passive aggressiveness is not valued or respected.

3. What are three things you wished people understood about Eights? We are not all ‘bulls in a china closet’. I am very comfortable not being in charge…as long as I feel like someone competent IS in charge. I don’t have to be the loudest or the leader. Many times, in fact, I prefer not to be. (Although committee work is from the very depths of hell. Ugh!) If I perceive a lack of leadership, I will step in – but I don’t have to be in that position from the start.

I do not have to be right. I am willing to compromise if a well-thought-out alternative is presented. I’m willing to change, but only if it makes sense to do so. I can even go along with a change that I don’t agree with if it appears that the person in charge believes strongly in the new direction. Again, an Eights direct communication is offered as a helpful tool to get straight to the problem or issue but it is NOT intended to be offensive.

4. Do you have any spiritual practices and does your Enneagram number influence what you’re drawn to spiritually? This has taken many decades to figure out. Denominations that feel to me too ‘touchy feely’ in their worship make me markedly uncomfortable. I like a more cerebral approach to corporate worship and expression. It feels the most natural to me and more representative of my relationship with God. In the past few years I have learned the enormous value of meditation in my life. Prayer is an active process which generally involves a focus on the past and/or future. Meditation, by contrast, is a non-active process of staying grounded in the present moment. The right now. That’s how I differentiate these two imperative spiritual practices in my faith.

5. Speak about what it’s like to be in the Body Triad. How does your body absorb and process the daily life of your existence? Unfortunately anger and frustration works it way through my body in the form of high blood pressure, digestive issues, a red face and rapid heartbeat. This is another side effect I’ve had to learn to recognize. Catching the early warning signs and heading them off before they get out of control is something I have had to work at over and over again. Meditation breathing is a big help. The simple act of getting in the car and rolling the windows down helps realign the physical actions happening in my body. I’ve always wished I’d taken up boxing as an exercise because I think it would do a lot to relieve the stress that accumulates inside my body. Short answer: breathing and moving my body are key to a healthier way to process adversity.

6. What do you love about your number? What is frustrating about your number? I am a good leader when called on. I am intuitive and a good strategic planner. I am able to listen to other views and discern whether or not that would work better. I like the pre-thought I put into events because I usually have already foreseen the worst-case scenario and am able to avoid it with good organizational methods. I like that people will turn to me for honest insight and to get something accomplished in the most efficient way.

I become very frustrated with the differences in communication styles between an Eight and other numbers. It has caused a lot of relational harm over the years that was unintentional and often caught me completely off guard.

7. What do you think would happen if you were to let the soft, loving, vulnerable side of your heart be known to the world at large? Awkwardness comes to mind first. People perceive me to be one thing and it always feels immensely uncomfortable to show a more vulnerable side. Very very very few people have seen that side of me. I am the 90% underwater of the iceberg analogy. I share my thoughts often, but rarely do I share the feelings surrounding them. A common phrase in my life is, “I think that…” because that’s what is easiest to articulate my thoughts about a given topic. A big part of the reason I don’t communicate my feelings about a subject is that I have such a difficult time understanding what they are myself. I had a best friend in my young adult life that would listen to me wax eloquent about an event or issue and after I was finished she would say, “And how did that make you feel?” She understood that was the part I was having the most trouble sifting through. Even now, I hear Charlene in my head asking me that question. Writing is my outlet for emotions. As I am writing, I am simultaneously learning how I feel about the topic.

8. What is your advice for parents of Type Eight children? Give your Eight child time!!! For instance, if they come home from a big event all excited and hyped up, a good response would be, “Let’s set some time tomorrow afternoon to talk about it. I’d love to hear what it was like.”

Because Eights are intimate partners with anger, they don’t understand that there are other underlying feelings. I was embarrassed or felt ashamed or disappointed or sad. Those feelings don’t bubble up to the surface easily, it just all feels like anger. Help your child by modeling what those feelings are like in your own life. Identify them for yourself when they happen and what the context was in which they happened. An Eight will hear you talking about it and more readily identify it in their own life. (But don’t say, “I felt embarrassed and maybe that’s how you feel sometimes.” Telling an Eight how they feel has a very negative affect.)

The worst phrase in the English language is “Just chill.” AAAAAACCKK! I want to grab someone’s neck when they say that to me. Again, telling an Eight how they think or feel creates a very opposite and detrimental result. When at all possible, move your upset Eight child into action. I think if a parent would say to me, “We’ll talk about this later. For right now, we’re going to go on a walk around the block but we cannot talk to each other until we get to Kellie’s house. Or until we get home.” Giving them the excuse to not ‘talk about it’ immediately will allow them time to process. Another helpful tool for me as a child would have been to suggest (but not in a punitive way), ‘Why don’t you sit down this evening and write me a letter describing how this situation made you feel and why you reacted the way you did. Then we’ll talk about it; maybe I missed something that you understood.’

Saying ‘this is what you need to do today’ is very constricting to an Eight child. Or adult! Where at all possible, saying ‘this needs to get done by this date’ allows the child constitution to decide when the chore needs to be completed. It puts them in control of the outcome and that’s where they like to be.

An adult side-note: The adage ‘Never go to bed angry’ is advice that does not necessarily apply to an Eight. Making a plan to talk about something at a later time allows the Eight to work through that Big Ball of Anger (that greatly resembles a ball of rubber bands) and to begin sorting through all the junk they’re feeling in their bodies, lay them out neatly on the table in front of them and then sort through everything again for the things that would be useful to discuss. Whether it’s working with an Eight child or working with an Eight spouse, when it’s time to talk about things, ask questions! ask questions! ask questions! (Big big BIG advice!) Don’t just say ‘Tell me about what you’re feeling.’ It’s virtually impossible for an Eight to do that. But when you start asking me specific questions, I can articulate my feelings best because it gives me small chunks of information to work through at a time.

Greta Williams Sutherland: I am retired from the non-profit world of environmental advocacy. I’m currently a book reviewer for book publishers and an obsessive houseplant hoarder, living in Northern California (transplanted from Kansas City, Missouri – GO CHIEFS!) with my Seven husband who works for Union Pacific Railroad. We are adventurers at heart and enjoy traveling at any available moment, exploring and experiencing new cultures and environments.
Blog: botanyandbookends.com

Instagram: instagram.com/botanyandbookends

Twitter: twitter.com/gretarains

Enneagram 8: April Jordan

Posted on April 22, 2020 by melissakircher

Welcome back to Enneagram Paths! Thank you for being here during strange and difficult times. I’m sending out love and light to all of you as we collectively deal with the tragedy and hardships of Covid-19. Please feel free to reach out if you need support. Coaching is a deeply intuitive space where, together, we explore places that need healing, embodiment, and self-love.

Today, I’m honored to have April Jordon on the blog to talk about her experiences as an Enneagram Type Eight.

The Enneagram Institute says this about Eights, “Eights are self-confident, strong, and assertive. Protective, resourceful, straight-talking, and decisive, but can also be ego-centric and domineering. Eights feel they must control their environment, especially people, sometimes becoming confrontational and intimidating. Eights typically have problems with their tempers and with allowing themselves to be vulnerable. At their Best: self- mastering, they use their strength to improve others’ lives, becoming heroic, magnanimous, and inspiring. [They] want to be self-reliant, to prove their strength and resist weakness, to be important in their world, to dominate the environment, and to stay in control of their situation.” (Type Eight, The Enneagram Institute)

Thanks, April, for sharing about your experiences as a Type Eight with all of us!

1. In what ways do you use your easy access to anger for good? What are some healthy outlets (when not saving the world or protecting others) for your anger? My anger fuels me in the best way. I love accessing my anger because it drives me to solve problems big and small (why not save the world if you can, right?). I can’t stand inaction, and become quickly frustrated when issues are at a standstill, so I take that anger and channel it into finding solutions that work for everybody. I do my utter best to further the interests of the group (social subtype 8 here!)

2. What do Eights look for in others? What do we have to live up to? Where do we fall short? I look for honesty, honesty, honesty! I have mad respect for anyone who can just “own their shit.” I love it when people know who they are and can ask for their needs to be met, set healthy boundaries and help others while they’re at it.

To live up to that, start by being honest with yourself first. I know it’s hard sometimes and can be an ongoing process, but it’s so worth it when you come out the other side as a powerful, free, generous and self-loving being. Plus the healthy 8s in your life will love you for it.

People tend to fall short, for me, because they avoid pain and discomfort. I really think this is the root of a lot of the seemingly benign dishonesty in the world. People simply don’t want to deal with things, so they tell what seems to be a little white lie. But I firmly believe that telling lies, even small ones, takes the other person’s power away, and that’s not cool with me.
And I should note that, of course, there are some things that are just nobody’s business, you don’t want to get into, or you’re not at liberty to share. I wouldn’t consider hiding that a lie. But if the information involves another person or could affect their life, I so appreciate when people are real about that stuff.

3. What are three things you wished people understood about Eights? Well, I can only really speak for myself, but here are three things I wish people understood about me as an 8:

– I want the factual truth, the whole factual truth, and nothing but the factual truth. Every time. Knowing the cold hard facts helps me feel secure and (again) like you’re being honest and looking out for me, too. Once I know the facts, I normally move to compassion and start looking for those solutions I love so much – even if the solution is just to sit and listen to you tell me about your day.

– I know I can seem intense. I’m working on knowing when and where to let that all hang out – promise! In the meantime, please do me a solid and know that I’m not angry at you. If I’m angry at you specifically, I will say so!

– I act like I have it all together, and most of the time I genuinely do. But if you’re one of my close friends or family it means so much to me if I know I can rely on you for support on the days when I’m feeling run down. And on that vein, please don’t assume I can help you out or pick up the slack on something. I am probably willing and able, but please ask first – haha! This isn’t usually an issue in my life – my family and friends are the bomb. But I’m putting it out there for anyone reading this!

4. Do you have any spiritual practices and does your Enneagram number influence what you’re drawn to spiritually? I grew up Christian, but recently abandoned the faith after years and years of searching for answers to my big questions and coming up dry. I talk about this a lot on a podcast I co-host called the Curiously Strong Podcast. Nowadays, I do yoga – I love the quiet strength it takes to stay in the poses and stay present through the pain. It’s a great release for me. I also do a lot of adult coloring books. I find it somewhat meditative.

5. What happens to your closest relationship when you move in stress to your Arrow of Type Five? What happens to your closest relationships when you move in health/integration to your Arrow of Type Two? Going to Type Five looks like losing sight of my intuition and researching the crap out of everything to feel strong and capable again, which takes up a lot of time. I withdraw to spend time on my projects, distance myself from my spouse, friends and family, and hoard energy and resources. It strains my marriage because there is a clear divide between my normal energetic self and my stressed self. Also, if people reach out, I often don’t reply for fear that they want something from me that I can’t provide. It becomes very, very lonely and stressful.

Going to Type Two looks like building community and spending energy looking after others. I become more willing to bend to meet the needs of my spouse, friends and family and lose a bit of my “edge” (which always makes me a little sad, I have to say). I open up and become a little more comfortable with my feelings. Going to Two is incredibly painful because I realize how isolated I usually am and how protected I usually try to be. It’s worth it, though. The people around me are so kind.

6. Speak about what it’s like to be in the Body Triad. How does your body absorb and process the daily life of your existence? Oh boy. Where to begin! One thing I do is “somatize” everything, which means that everything I experience mentally or emotionally creates a distinct bodily response. For example, stress isn’t experienced as an emotion, rather my neck and jaw will tense up. If someone is upset with me, I don’t respond with emotion and may not even think much of it, but my stomach may become upset. When I accomplish something, I can feel a wave of peace and ease wash over my body. If I’m really happy, I can almost feel electricity coursing through my body, spurring me forward! It’s really hard to describe what this is like, but in short, almost everything happens as a body response first, then a mental response, then an emotional response. I hope that makes sense!

7. What do you love about your number? What is frustrating about your number? Healthy 8s are just the best, haha!! I am proud to be part of a group who shows up 110% to everything and has the strength to affect real change and empower others to do the same. I love my confidence and how much I care about “my people.” If you’re someone I love and trust, I’d give my left arm to keep you healthy and safe! Unhealthy 8s, however, are awful. Having such strength and determination is pretty destructive if we don’t pay attention to others’ needs and where they’re at.

8. What do you think would happen if you were to let the soft, loving, vulnerable side of your heart be known to the world at large? People would take advantage of it. That’s about all there is to it, haha!

9. What is your advice for parents of Type Eight children? (Totally selfish question!) If you strictly enforce a rule, be willing to explain the logic behind it. Nothing made me want to smash through boundaries like the “because I said so” answer. If I was still asking “why?” it was because the adults hadn’t convinced me that what they were telling me to do was a good or efficient or logical idea. 8 kids are smart – give us logic!

10. What do the words yield, affection, and empowerment mean to you these days? Yield – yikes. This one is hard for me, but I’m getting better. I selectively choose people who are clearly better than me at things and try to learn from them. I am willing to take a backseat to someone who can prove their competence and confidence in an area.

Affection – another yikes! This word really gives me the heebie-jeebies. But again, I think I’m getting better. I have a lot of 9s and 2s (or w2s) around me and I appreciate their softness. They give me space to open up slowly and test the waters at my own pace.

Empowerment – HELL YEAH! I love this word. I generally feel so empowered in life – like the world is mine for the taking – and I want that for everyone else. As a social 8, I do my very best to spread the power and help others, especially women, find it within themselves. You’ve got this!

April Jordan is a sustainability and social justice advocate from Vancouver, BC, Canada. By day she slings words as a Communications professional, and by night she slings words some more with her sustainable lifestyle and fashion blog and Instagram – The Honest Root. Other than that, you can usually find April up a mountain, in a coffee shop or thrifting at a local vintage or consignment shop. She would love for you to reach out and connect about any of the afore mentioned topics, or just to say hello.

Social Media:

Twitter: @thehonestroot & @curiouslypod
Instagram: @thehonestroot & @curiouslystrongpod

Enneagram Type Eight: Marisa M. & Jose A. Noguera

Posted on March 30, 2020March 30, 2020 by melissakircher

Hello, friends. It’s Monday….feels like years and years since last Monday, doesn’t it? I read a FB post the other day from a parent whose toddler kept asking, “Is today a day?” Poor kiddo could not understand what was up. Why is everybody at home? Seems about right to me! I want to send all of you love and light and hope wherever you can find it, and permission to let the darkness feel as big and scary as it needs to at times. Allow it all and know you’re not alone. We’re all here with you, a Oneness of being that surrounds you with love.

Today, I’m excited to have Marisa and Jose on the blog, sharing with you about their experiences as Enneagram Type Eights. Thank you both so much for being here! Let’s dive into their juicy interviews:

Marisa M.

1. In what ways do you use your easy access to anger for good? What are some healthy outlets (when not saving the world or protecting others) for your anger? Anyone who has any familiarity with Type Eights knows that when we’re angry about something, we don’t hesitate to jump into righting wrongs; whether they’ve been committed against us or someone else. I take care of myself all the time. But, I’ve also helped family and friends with financial, housing, healthcare, education, legal, personal, and local government issues, and made sure no one was taken advantage of. In a world where it’s every person for themselves, the folks who are most at risk seem to be the ones who have a harder time figuring out where to turn for safe, reliable help. That’s where Eights come in.

When I’m angry, I tend to have really good days in the gym. It’s a great catalyst for pushing myself harder than normal. Being active outdoors (hiking, biking, camping) has a very calming influence on me.

2. What do Eights look for in others? What do we have to live up to? Where do we fall short? As a Type Eight, I look for others to have strength of character and not shy away from me in timidity. I need them to understand that I crave opportunities to genuinely engage, especially with difficult but necessary conversations. I find this intense engagement intimate and vital to building strong relationships. I need folks to not betray me out of fear and throw me under the bus because they don’t have the courage to engage with me like a mature adult. As an Eight, where others see anger, I just see a normal conversation. I need people to be willing to explain to me how they’re perceiving me—what I can do to make the conversation safer for them and more productive for all of us.

3. What are three things you wished people understood about Eights?We’re passionate, not angry! We get worked up easily when it comes to injustices, but we’re not necessarily trying to steamroll anyone—we just want what’s right and fair, we want it yesterday, and we’ll do what it takes to make it happen. This urge is hard to temper. We’re eager to help, and that can sometimes come across as domineering, but that’s not at all the intent. Our passion for justice and helping lift others up tends to rev our energy levels, which is often interpreted as being controlling and dominating. We don’t mean it in a harmful way; we just have intense personalities. We are not assholes or dictatorial terrorists! We’re simply strong-willed and determined, and not about to sit down and shut up when we know we can do something to make a difference and help people. We’re really incredibly loving and nurturing, which is a byproduct of our inherent protective nature.

Bonus: The fact that I’m on fire about something doesn’t mean that I want to set the whole world on fire. I mean, I absolutely will if I deem it necessary. Without hesitating. I’m an Enneagram Eight, after all. But that’s not always the number one goal, or even on the radar.

4. Do you have any spiritual practices and does your Enneagram number influence what you’re drawn to spiritually? It’s my upbringing, really, that influences my spiritual practices. I don’t think my Eight-ness has much, if any, bearing on it. I pray, I reflect, I try to remain cognizant of the blessings in my life. That doesn’t seem too typically Eight to me…

5. What happens to your closest relationship when you move in stress to your Arrow of Type Five? What happens to your closest relationships when you move in health/integration to your Arrow of Type Two? When I move to Five, things get strained because I shut down and shut out. I withdraw, less to reflect and more to lick my wounds and cuss the situation (and often the other person(s) involved). When moving to Two, though, there’s an abundance of trust and openness and making space for those of us on each side.

6. Speak about what it’s like to be in the Body Triad. How does your body absorb and process the daily life of your existence? I get stressed when people won’t engage with me the way I need them to. When they won’t take the time to listen and understand me, and instead push me away thinking I’m being a jerk. When they won’t explain to me how I’m coming across and what I can do differently to engage with them in a more productive manner. The stress tends to hunker down in my neck and shoulders, so I feel it physically. I also tend to withdraw and shut down when it gets too intense, which negatively affects my mood.

7. What do you love about your number? What is frustrating about your number? I love that we’re readily willing to stand up for and protect not only ourselves, but others. I love that we’re loyal, often to a fault. I love that even though we run screaming from vulnerability, we still maintain the most incredible capacity for an intensely loving, protective nature.

It’s frustrating that my Eight-ness causes others to see me as intimidating and angry instead of passionate, strong, and determined. I dislike being so blunt; it hampers my abilities to hit pause and develop tact before proceeding. I dislike that my Eight-ness makes others want to distance themselves instead of (even just gently) stepping into the ring with me. I frustrate myself in terms of being so willing to jump in, instead of taking a hot second to survey the land and weigh possible options. I’m slowly learning to lean into my Nine wing to help in that regard.

8. What do you think would happen if you were to let the soft, loving, vulnerable side of your heart be known to the world at large? Folks might actually understand me better and not immediately conclude that I’m being a stereotypical Eight. But, vulnerability is scary and dangerous, and I was hurt horrifically the one time I dared to be completely vulnerable with someone. Because of that, I’m afraid I’d be hurt again if I took another stab at it. My girlfriend has been A-MAH-ZING in helping me process the trauma and damage, and slowly learn to let others in. It’s a work in progress…

9. What is your advice for parents of Type Eight children? (Totally selfish question!) Validate your kids. Allow them the freedom to live into who they are, their innate strength and desire to help and protect others, especially the younger ones. In fact, try to foster the Eight-ness in them, instead of trying to corral and control them. You’ll just tire yourself out and tick them off. In regards to the older, adult kids, don’t take us for granted. Yes, we’re always ready to take on a fight on your behalf, but it can be so exhausting. Be willing to take up your own battles and rely on us for support instead of dumping everything in our lap and sitting back to watch us work.

10. What do the words yield, affection, and empowerment mean to you these days?

Yield: Pause, think, reflect, allow others the right-of-way instead of always charging headfirst into a situation. … It’s going. To be. OK.

Affection: This is the tender, often-unseen part of being an Eight that needs to be brought to the forefront. This will help others better relate to and understand us.

Empowerment: We are already empowered. We need to use our Eight-ness to empower others and support them in the process.

Marisa was born and raised in the DFW Metroplex and tended to be a strong-willed child, always taking up for others and going toe-to-toe with authority figures. She only started to learn about the Enneagram in the last year—and that she’s an Eight—so her past and present are starting to make infinitely more sense. It’s also become clear why she chased after a profession in the fields of law enforcement and public service. Marisa is proud to say she’s the first in her family to obtain a Masters degree (MBA) and is a rabid and unapologetic Shake Shack fan, having visited 30 locations in 22 cities across 9 states, the District of Columbia, and 2 countries (as of publication). She loves to travel, but a government paycheck just isn’t sufficient enough to pay for the amount she needs to support her wanderlust. With less than 7 years to go before reaching full retirement eligibility, Marisa is looking forward to a second career where she can put her MBA to use and make fat stacks so she can travel the world (and visit more Shake Shack locations).

You can find Marisa on Twitter at @MarisaM_TX and online at marisaunleashed.wordpress.com.

Jose A. Noguera

1. In what ways do you use your easy access to anger for good? What are some healthy outlets (when not saving the world or protecting others) for your anger? I think I can summarize it in one word: Accountability. I think my access to anger allows me to hold myself and others accountable whenever I think we’re not living up to some standard. My ready ability to tap into accountability makes it easy to call myself and others out for being less than stellar— as well as standing up and fighting against things I don’t agree with.

2. What do Eights look for in others? What do we have to live up to? Where do we fall short? One of the most important things I look for in others is “effort” or “drive.” I absolutely understand that not everyone is capable of accomplishing the same things, but I think the one thing that matters most is that someone tried. I respect people who don’t make excuses for themselves, and I look up to those who are willing to try their best no matter what.

3. What are three things you wished people understood about Eights? I’m going to answer this from my perspective, but I really wish people didn’t think I was angry simply because I become very emotional in a conversation. I feel like my passion for things immediately gets received as anger, and that’s a little frustrating. I also think people don’t realize how unaware of ourselves we Eights can be. I always catch myself telling people “I really didn’t mean that that way” and I think part of that stems from how unaware I am of how I come off to people. Essentially, I wish people were capable of judging others based on their intent. Lastly, I wish others understood how self-critical we are. The one thing I find common about most of the Eights I know, is that we beat ourselves up endlessly, and I wish people saw that a little bit more.

4. Do you have any spiritual practices and does your Enneagram number influence what you’re drawn to spiritually? I’m not particularly religious, but I am absolutely drawn to things that make me feel more present in my body. Exercise and physical activity (hiking, jiu jitsu, skiing) really help me be present and help me be aware of myself in space. I think over time, as I’ve integrated, I’ve begun taking care of myself physically more and more, and that’s only helped me grow better.

5. What happens to your closest relationship when you move in stress to your Arrow of Type Five? What happens to your closest relationships when you move in health/integration to your Arrow of Type Two? My closest relationships take a beating whenever I stress out. I think one of our worst characteristics is how self-forgetting we are, and whenever I’m stressed out I typically become insufferable. Anyone around me could become an outlet for some of the stress I’m carrying, and that’s typically not healthy. Nonetheless, if I’m integrating, my closest relationships shine. I work tirelessly to raise the people around me up an to push them to be better versions of themselves. I like thinking of this internally as my own “amplifier” effect, since I’m capable of bringing out the best in those around me.

6. Speak about what it’s like to be in the Body Triad. How does your body absorb and process the daily life of your existence? The Body Triad is great hahaha! I love being so in tune with my self, and I think something in particular I like about being an Enneagram Eight is how I’m typically pretty self-aware most of the time. Nonetheless, being a member of the gut triad makes anger an accessible emotion, and I’d describe my typical emotional state to be “slightly annoyed at something all the time.” I feel full of energy, with a deep willingness to push myself to my limits, especially if I am passionate about what I’m doing. If lose faith or belief in what I’m doing, then I really struggle to invest in it.

7. What do you think would happen if you were to let the soft, loving, vulnerable side of your heart be known to the world at large? Hmm, I’m sure that would be good in theory, but that feels really difficult. I wonder what other Eights will respond to this, but damn, I feel like I can only do that with a select group of people that I trust enough.

8. What is your advice for parents of Type Eight children? Man, I think the best thing you can do is to invite them to own their little lives. My parents raised me that way, and even from a young age I was aware of myself. I think by tapping into that core desire and drive of Eights to be independent, you can help your Eight child move toward integration earlier in life by empowering them. We’re quite stubborn people, and if you work to steer the drive, the huffing and puffing, and the energy toward helping them grow that might reduce the amount of times you butt heads.

I am a 25 y.o. engineer working in the Energy Industry in Process Control and Optimization. I typically never back down from a challenge, and I love opportunities to demonstrate my skills (not out of narcissism, but purely out of enjoyment). I love pushing the limits of what I’m capable of, and that reflects in everything I do.
In my free time, I read, go to the gym, play guitar, cook, or look for new investment opportunities. In the past year, I started a nonprofit intended to teach people about economic freedom and the merits of capitalism. I recently took up Brazilian Jiu Jitsu to add to my physical training, and I absolutely love skiing and hiking. Relationships are incredibly important to me. I strive to be able to provide for my parents and my close family so that if needed, they don’t have to worry about anything financially. In the long term, my goal is to affect and improve my community and the people around me. I’d like to enable all of those in my life to be better versions of themselves so they too can achieve their own goals.

You can find Jose on Twitter at @Janoguera94 and Instagram at @Janoguera.

More Great Eights: Interview with Enneagram Eight, Stacey Midge

Posted on April 30, 2018 by melissakircher

peter-john-maridable-53936-unsplash “There is no Space or Time
Only intensity,
And tame things
Have no immensity”
― Mina Loy, The Lost Lunar Baedeker: Poems of Mina Loy

I signed up for Rev. Stacey Midge’s awesome new e-mail blast about Enneagram Type Eight’s because my son is an Eight (Right now, obviously! I’m typing him in my thoughts…but he’s so an Eight!) and I wanted some insight into the inner workings of his mind, body, and heart. So far, I’m in love with getting weekly reminders about the challenges and amazing gifts Eights bring to the world. Welcome, Stacey!

1. In what ways do you use your easy access to anger for good? What are some healthy outlets for your anger?

Perhaps this is just life from an Eight’s perspective, but it seems there is a lot going on in the world for which the most appropriate response is anger. The pure expression of anger probably isn’t going to be the eventual solution to a problem, but anger can point to a problem that is being ignored, clarify the extent of the problem, and energize people toward change. We’re the people you want if you have a cause that needs a great deal of attention. For a healthy Type Eight, anger is just the beginning. We use it as fuel, and while others may get tired of fighting, fighting is the thing that energizes us. This can make us very irritating to others who prefer unity and compromise, but in movements for social change, you need both impulses. If you’re ever in a bad situation, especially an unjust one, you want an Eight and all their anger on your side, because we do not back down, and we are not afraid of whatever powers that be – even when it might be smarter to be a little afraid.

Easy access to anger can also benefit one-on-one relationships if it’s channeled well. Eights are not afraid of conflict. If there’s a problem, we want to have it out immediately, so conflict doesn’t stew and build up over time. The downfall is that not everyone is ready to deal with our intensity right on the spot. matthew-henry-86779-unsplash I’ve had to find gentler ways to approach people in a conflict so I don’t scare them away from communicating with me; to give them space to process and come back to me later. It’s extremely hard for me to wait on other people to sort out conflict, but I have to keep repeating the mantra: “Just because it’s not solved today, doesn’t mean it won’t be solved.”

Healthy anger outlets: I need to do something physical. My anger – and really all my emotions – are very connected to my body. I feel them physically, and when I avoid them, they build up and start manifesting physically. In an ideal world, I would maintain regular practices of martial arts/kickboxing and yoga. One, to get out the aggression and provide a challenge, and the other to listen to my body in a gentler, slower manner that accepts limitations. I’ve had some injuries in the last couple of years that have prevented this, and I can really feel the lack. Also, I love verbally sparring with other Eights (or other types who can hang in there and not think my intensity means I dislike them). I kind of need to have at least one really good argument a week. Sometimes this shows up on Twitter.

2. What do Eights look for in others? What do we have to live up to? Where do we fall short?

Eights tend to be drawn to two polar opposite sets of qualities in other people. We get very tender and protective of people who have obvious weaknesses or are underdogs, and often our own vulnerability comes out most readily with those folks. Our competitiveness can take a rest, and they already know we are strong because we’re the ones fighting on their side. We are also drawn to people who can match our intensity. For me that tends to be other Eights who get excited about going toe-to-toe, Sevens who crave adventure and experience (I’m a strong Seven Wing as well), and Fours who share my level of intensity but situate it in their emotional core, which draws me into the emotional territory that I sometimes avoid if left to my own devices. We are also looking for a high level of loyalty. If I see or sense that someone will not have my back, or that they will take their problems with me to someone else and create discord behind my back, we’re not friends. I can deal with a lot of miscommunications, misunderstandings, and differences, but if you betray me, we’re done.

“Fall short” sounds like such a judgmental way of putting it, but I do have a hard time with people who seem to lack the courage of their convictions or who put on such different personas that I don’t feel like I know who they really are. Studying the Enneagram has helped me understand that sometimes these behaviors are not a fundamental lack of integrity, as I once believed, but rather patterns that people develop to achieve desired ends – which are different than my desired ends. That said, if someone fails to stand with me against injustice, I would probably use the judgy “fall short” terminology.

3. What are three things you wished people understood about Eights?

– We’re not (usually) trying to scare or bully you; we really just think we’re stating an opinion. We often don’t know how forceful we sound or how much space we take up in a room.

– Yes, we’re angry, but it’s because we care. We care immensely about people and systems, and it comes out in anger. Type Eights are quite capable of not caring, and you can tell because we no longer have opinions or get angry about something if we don’t care. We’ve completely disconnected, and there’s no coming back from that.

– Most Eights will make you earn our vulnerability. It’s not that we can’t be vulnerable, or that we don’t want to be, but we want to know we can trust you first.

4. Do you have any spiritual practices and does your Enneagram number influence what you’re drawn to spiritually?

I’m naturally drawn to practicing my spirituality in entirely active and outward-focused ways. I can do advocacy and activism all day, every day. But eventually, even an Eight burns out from doing and doing – and never being. I’ve intentionally integrated contemplative practices into my life so that I can build a foundation for my social action and access other emotions than anger. I still don’t like contemplative prayer or meditation – and I’m always struggling against the voice that says I could be out doing something – but I do practice them regularly. I also take 2-3 day silent retreats at least once a year, which is the hardest and best thing ever for this highly extroverted 8w7. It takes me at least twenty-four hours just to stop thinking I should give up and go talk to some humans, and then I can start to dip a toe into the reality of my emotional and spiritual state.

Part of my spiritual practice is also an intentional community. I’ve been part of a small cohort of other women clergy for several years, and we check in with each other regularly, do some writing together, and meet occasionally for retreats. That group has been a really important part of keeping me grounded and also helping me grow into some of those vulnerability things that are hard for Eights. It’s pretty crucial for me to have people around who know me well enough that they won’t settle for my bullshit and who push me to be more emotionally honest and whole.

My move toward Five is a big danger zone flag, and fortunately, the people closest to me have been well trained to recognize it. I withdraw and get secretive, which is not at all my normal way of being. I know that when I don’t want to tell anyone what I did last night, even if it was just watching a movie on my couch, I am disintegrating. Beware the Eight doing research; we’re often preparing to blow something up. A serious move toward Five means that I disconnect from all of my close relationships.

When I integrate toward Type Two, I become extremely generous with my time and emotional energy. I’m much more likely to be aware of how best to care for other people, and I’m naturally open-hearted and trusting. In groups, I intentionally provide a lot of space for other people to fully express themselves instead of dominating conversations.

6. Speak about what it’s like to be in the Body Triad. How does your body absorb and process the daily life of your existence?

warren-wong-346736-unsplash I think the experience of what happens to our bodies in response to anger or challenge is central to being an Eight. I literally feel like I am physically growing and my presence in a room seems quantifiably larger to me. When I’m in a highly emotional state, it’s often hard for me to be touched, because I can feel energy rolling off my skin like heat. All of my emotion radiates out from my gut and core, and when I disintegrate, that’s also where things go wrong and I end up with digestive and lower back problems. I mentioned physical activity as an outlet earlier, and I really need to engage my body through breathing exercises, yoga, walking, or punching things if I want to calm down.

7. What do you love about your number? What do you hate about your number?

I love that conflict doesn’t scare me, and that I can stand up for myself and for others without second guessing myself or fearing the outcome. I love being decisive and clear, and knowing that I can assert myself when it’s necessary. I love the big heartedness and generosity that comes with health. I love the rush of knowing I’m going into a big battle. And I know this is why people of other types dislike us, but I confess that I kind of love it that if I need to, I can scare people a little.

I hate that our more tender emotions get so buried that we often don’t know they exist, and I don’t love it that our intensity of opinion makes us come off as blowhards. I hate that other types feel worse about their “negative” qualities than Eights usually do, not because I want to feel worse, but because there is a lot of pressure from other Enneagram folks to feel bad about your type. The Enneagram journey for a lot of people involves discovering their type because it is uncomfortably resonant and points out things they would rather people didn’t know and working toward acceptance. For Type Eights it tends to be opposite. We think it’s all a crock, then we hear Eights described and think, “Hell yes, that is what I am and it is awesome!” and then it’s a process of realizing not EVERYTHING about it is awesome.

8. What do you think would happen if you were to let the soft, loving, vulnerable side of your heart be known to the world at large?

I just rolled my eyes and sighed deeply; does that tell you anything? I’m still trying to figure out what it means to consistently let myself show the soft, loving, vulnerable side of my heart to good friends and to my congregation. At this point, I don’t really think anything negative would happen, but it’s challenging to access the part of me that openly expresses loving emotions. I’m working on articulating affection, which I feel, but am terrible at speaking. I think I’ve gotten beyond my fear that people will reject or betray me if I’m open with them, but I’m still often so busy accomplishing all the things that it doesn’t occur to me to stop and verbally appreciate people.

9. What is your advice for parents of Type Eight children? (Totally selfish question!)

The best thing my parents did for me was to respect my autonomy and reasoning skills. I’m not sure I ever considered any of their decisions or rules to be the final answer, which I’m sure was frustrating at times, but they listened to me, explained why the rules existed, and gave serious consideration to my alternative ideas. They never made me follow a rule that didn’t make sense, and they let me make a lot of my own decisions from a very young age as long as I could prove I was adequately responsible. In hindsight, I probably would have benefitted from a little more encouragement to be affectionate and to ask for help when it was necessary because I really drank in the message that it was best to be tough and self-sufficient. It served me well in many ways, but learning to open up to people at forty is a challenge!

10. What do the words yield, affection, and empowerment mean to you these days?

Yield – It’s hilarious how my body draws back as if it’s preparing to resist in response to just the word. I can think of this positively if I frame it as yielding the floor – making space for someone else to express their ideas or feelings. Or a yield sign on a freeway entrance, that means you need to wait and take your turn so the road is safe for everyone. But yield also carries the connotation of giving up or ceding a competition to someone else, and apparently, I’m still way too Eight for that.

Affection – I’m actively seeking to be more receptive to and expressive of affection. For me, it’s sort of like trying on clothes that are not at all your normal style. I tell myself that I’m going to try it out, and it’s probably going to look awkward and feel kind of uncomfortable, but I’m at least going to put it on and sashay around in front of the mirror for a few minutes before I decide to discard it. And sometimes I end up deciding it’s the perfect thing to keep on for a few hours. I haven’t overhauled my wardrobe yet, but I keep a few pieces around for regular use. Have I exhausted this metaphor yet? People regularly hug me now and I don’t freak out. Often, I even like it. Occasionally, I initiate it, and that is huge.

Empowerment – I love me some empowerment, but I’m embracing the empowerment of emotions other than anger. Moving through grief well is tremendously empowering. Allowing yourself to love is empowering. One of my favorite things about the congregation I serve is that we laugh together all the time. Collective laughter is its own form of resistance, and it is tremendously empowering.

Rev. Stacey Midge serves as the pastor of Mt. Auburn Presbyterian Church in Cincinnati, Ohio. She’s a musician, hockey fan, and traveler, but does all things at the beck and call of her elderly hound, Laila. Stacey has been working with the Enneagram personally for about ten years and recently started integrating it into congregational ministry. You can find her on her website staceymidge.com or on Twitter @revstacey. To sign up for her “For 8s by 8s” Email List”: CLICK HERE

*Photos by Peter John Maridable, Matthew Henry , Ty Williams on Unsplash