Category: Interviews

Enneagram Sixes: Ruth Nathaniel & Julianne Gibson

Enneagram Sixes: Ruth Nathaniel & Julianne Gibson

Posted on by melissakircher
“Affirmation for Sixes” – Melissa Kircher

Good morning Enneagram Paths friends! I hope you are safe and well. I’m sending out love, presence, and light to all of you today.

We have two amazing people, and Type Sixes, in the house! Ruth Nathaniel and Julianne Gibson have graciously allowed me to interview them and ask what it’s like to be a Type Six. Their answers put me in the mind, body, and emotions of a Six and are so helpful. It’s wonderful to hear from all different kinds people about how the Enneagram is impacting their lives. Thank you both for sharing your thoughts and experiences!

Ruth Nathaniel

1. What has it been like being a Type Six during Covid, quarantine, and social distancing? How have you coped?

As a Type Six, this season of life has been tough, but pulled out the greatest shades of courage I could muster. I practiced radical acceptance as we postponed our wedding not once but twice (fingers crossed for 2022!), trekked through the nerve-wracking green card process and its limitations (including not working for a whole year), as well as trusting the scientific community to pull through with a viable vaccine to help curb the pandemic since so many of my loved ones are immunocompromised and abroad. Deep down I knew I had all of the tools to ground myself when I felt anxious, depressed, or lonely. The real challenge was to actually do it! Some of these tools were creating art, staying physically active, scheduling FaceTime calls with my friends in Canada, and giving myself permission to simply rest when I needed to. 

2. What is the thing you like the most about being a Six?

Over the last few years, especially since learning more about my type and growing towards health, I’ve wrestled with my silence and lack of boundaries in relationships with authority figures. There was a time when I would’ve completely crumbled at the thought of “disrupting” the flow of these relationships or calling out abusive behavior, even when I was being mistreated. However, I’ve been empowered by my ability to look within for assurance in my decision making and judgement, and not to others. As a Six I have a strong voice and now use it to speak truth to power. Furthermore, when you’ve had traumatic experiences with important figures in your life, it can negatively affect how you view other people too. As a Type Six, I need not resort to pessimism and suspicion, but can actually trust the people around me since I possess an abundance of good faith AND know there is an abundance of good humans to call my friends. 

3. Tell us about fear or doubt. How do you engage with fear/doubt and calm it so that you feel internal peace and trust in yourself?

Fear and doubt are familiar voices in my head, as such I’ve focused less on silencing them and more on speaking to them in the moments they show up. My fear and doubts can be justified (through some train of logic) almost all the time but realistically they have the most power when I keep them inside and let them cast larger than life shadows in my mind. I’ve found that naming my fear or doubt aloud strips them of some of their power and ambiguity, and makes space for alternative perspectives to be introduced. I like to remind myself of decisions I’ve made that yielded less than ideal outcomes, and how all of those choices still led me to a life I love and people I adore.

4. How do you use your Stress Arrow to Type Three to help you these days? Are there any tips you’d give other Sixes about choosing some of the high-side traits of Three to be of service to you in stress?

One of the most impactful perspectives about the stress arrow is that it is merely a weak coping mechanism to get us through a difficult time. The inclination to be overly competitive or achievement based is a feature of my personality in stress and does not reflect my personhood or essence. As a child, affirmation was only given in response to achievement. I performed to be loved. It was such a literal conditioning that my parents’ house is full of displays of ribbons and trophies from my youth. As such, it’s easy to be highly irritated by Type Threes when you associate some of their traits with your own trauma and stress, so I’d encourage Type Sixes to do life with a Type Three. This friendship will not only teach you how to be empathetic and open-minded when they are not at their best, but also foster grace for yourself when you exhibit similar features from time to time or lean on your old personality crutches. I have a few healthy Type Threes in my inner circle who illuminate the positive side of those much needed traits, and help me see that self-assuredness and decisive action can be harnessed for good and not to simply position myself when I am insecure or seeking love.

5. Are you a Social, Self-Preservation, or Sexual/One-to-One Subtype? What does this instinct look like in your daily life? How does it drive some of your behaviors, thoughts, and feelings?

I am dominantly a self-preservation subtype, surely gleaning from the other subtypes from time to time. This instinct is most present in my approach to feeling and communicating my anger. As a child, I felt that if someone was angry then their love was conditional, and receiving their love was based on how little I could anger them. As an adult, I had to reckon with that conditioning and examine why safely communicating anger is actually important and can be a loving thing to do. I’ve learned that my anger signals when something hits close to the heart and acknowledging my own defensiveness is helpful to both me and the people I communicate it to. Anger does not make me less lovable, it clarifies my values and can actually increase the stability and safety in relationships when used appropriately. At my best, this looks like communicating when I am upset in a clear, confident manner without bottling things up or lashing out. 

6. From the perspective of a Type Six, how can we best support each other during these difficult times? 

A deep breath can change everything. When you are feeling overwhelmed by something you’ve read, heard, or witnessed, take a moment to ground yourself in the present. Sometimes all it takes is closing your eyes and taking a few conscious breaths. Other times, when tensions are high, and it’s easiest to lash out (especially behind a computer screen), consider writing down how you feel in a notebook and decide if it’s actually how you want to represent yourself and your perspective online before publishing it. A little grace goes a long way, and while hardship exists everywhere at all times, this past year and a half has perhaps opened our eyes to the sheer vulnerability and insecurity so many people experience. When we are tempted to compare suffering, I would encourage us all to approach our interactions from a place of abundance. Compassion, kindness, and a listening ear cost us very little and go so far. 

Ruth Nathaniel is a licensed psychotherapist who sees clients in Chicago and Denver. She is Tamil-Canadian and the daughter of immigrants. You can usually find her laughing at niche memes and tweets, painting, trying a new recipe, or working up a sweat. You can read more about Ruth’s approach to therapy at https://optimumjoy.com/ruth-nathaniel/ and follow her on Twitter at @ruthsnathaniel

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Julianne Gibson

1. What has it been like being a Type Six during Covid, quarantine, and social distancing? How have you coped? 

It was difficult to be a scientist during this time. I work in the wilderness, and I could not access the wilderness – my research was literally shut down. It was hard having the thing I’ve dedicated my life to taken from me. It was also hard not being able to collaborate with my colleagues in person anymore. It really took the joy out of science for me for quite a while. I coped largely by taking it easier on myself, taking the lesser grade, accepting that my field research would have less data and a shorter time frame. I think I had a harder time being separated from colleagues than I did my friends, but my best friend is a colleague so I’m sure that’s why. I Zoomed with her quite often, and that helped a lot. She and I really supported each other in our scientific expenditures during that period. 

In terms of non-scientific matters, I can’t say that I coped. I had family issues, relationship issues, body issues, everything. I think at the time I just kept telling myself to take it day by day and that everything would be okay. I took every problem one problem at a time and tried to communicate as best as I could with my partner. Also, I had weekly virtual therapy with my therapist, and she helped me feel hope.

2. What is the thing you like the most about being a Six?

I like how brave I am. I genuinely believe I am more courageous than most because I must face legitimate fears on a more consistent basis. As a result of this, I appreciate that I know how I will handle fear and doubt when in bad situations. Unfortunately, some awful things have happened and my significant other really did not cope well, he shut down emotionally. I took control in that situation and stepped up to the plate. I like that I know that if I am out conducting research with a group and we get lost in the wilderness, I know that regardless of how scared I am, I will put it aside in the moment. I would say as an extension of this that I like how quickly I can imagine all of the possibilities as it is really a wonderful trait for my career as well as for everyday life.

3. Tell us about fear or doubt. How do you engage with fear/doubt and calm it so that you feel internal peace and trust in yourself?

It’s funny because I was pretty unaware of my issues with fear prior to finding out about my type three years ago. I’d been in weekly therapy for several years prior to that and I’ve had anxiety for as long as I could remember. However, I always viewed myself as a brave person – which I am, but I had not identified that many of the issues I dealt with were fear-based. Now that I recognize that, I have developed some coping skills and generally I focus on mindfulness. Primarily, I find that doing helps the most. I can really convince myself that I am not capable of things when I think, and I can support it with many experiences and feelings. However, often, when I go out and do that thing, I am completely fine. One example of this is scuba diving. I was so terrified the entire lead up to my first time scuba diving, but when I finally did it, I was fine. Additionally, I think that the more that I push myself to simply take the jump and do things, whether it’s an activity or making a choice, I build more trust in myself and create more memories of myself being successful. Sometimes I can’t go right out and do something though – such as with the Europe trip that my best friend and I are planning. I have so many fears – what if we fight and are never friends again? What if I can’t sleep in the hostels considering my bad sleep issues? What if someone steals from us? What if we get hurt? I cope with these fears by acknowledging that they are possible, and doing my best to prepare for them, but that I can’t not do things based upon my fear. I think in truth that is my greatest fear – to not do all of the things I have dreamed of doing my entire life out of fear. One last note I will mention on the topic of fear is that I’ve learned the worst time for fear for me is at night. I think this is the worst time for many people but for me, it is a very fear-based time. As a result, I practice a lot of thought-stopping prior to falling asleep and I generally refuse to allow myself to think about these things, once I notice consciously that I’m thinking about it because it is unproductive.

4. How do you use your Stress Arrow to Type Three to help you these days? Are there any tips you’d give other Sixes about choosing some of the high-side traits of Three to be of service to you in stress? 

Ha, so I’m a scientist and I’m not going to lie – I love my three disintegration. I will let myself completely fall apart trying to get an A or set up the perfect research study (or etc.) before I will allow myself to accept being unsuccessful. Also, I’m wonderful at being a chameleon when networking with other scientists and I know how to present myself to them in the way they want. All I can say to other sixes is that if you are going to use your stress arrow, do it for something that is good for you in the grand scheme. I am okay using that stress arrow for my career because my career is the thing that I want the most in life.

5. Are you a Social, Self-Preservation, or Sexual/One-to-One Subtype? What does this instinct look like in your daily life? How does it drive some of your behaviors, thoughts, and feelings? 

I am a sexual subtype and I feel that it’s obvious when you learn what a sexual Six. I cope with my fear by trying to be the smartest, strongest, and prettiest in the room. It shows the most when I’m stressed, and it can be extremely toxic. I love weightlifting and athletics, I’ve played sports all my life, but as a woman who grew up in the digital age, I have body issues. I’m also in a healthy relationship so I have some extra love pounds. As a result, I notice that I suddenly become extremely hateful of my body when I am stressed. Similarly, when it comes time to find a new research position or join a new lab, I often become far more stressed about being the smartest than I typically am. Overall, I think my sexual subtype coupled with three disintegration makes for a nasty breed of perfectionism that I spend a lot of time in therapy coping with.

6. From the perspective of a Type Six, how can we best support each other during these difficult times? 

For me, it’s listening. I don’t need you to really tell me advice – I’ve already thought of every possibility before I ever came to you. However, sometimes, I don’t have the strength to convince myself that my doubt is just doubt. As a result, having you listen and confirm what I am thinking can be helpful in times where I am too weak to do the self-work to do that for myself. Additionally, I think that more gentle criticisms can be beneficial in hard times.

Julianne Gibson is a scientist who studies wildlife ecology and conservation. I specialize, or rather am trying to specialize, in spatial ecology so I look at ecosystems on a large scale to look for patterns and processes, and I do a lot of coding and mapping to support this work, as well as your general wildlife scientist fieldwork. I am 23 years old so I am still very early into my career, and I would like to get a PhD so that I can be a professor one day. I have been in a long-distance relationship for three years with a nerdy yet extremely adventurous chemist. I am proudly bisexual, though I have not always been so proud in the past. I live in Florida, but I am from Texas. In my free time, I love all the hobbies! Cooking and baking, crafting, games, kayaking, hiking, television, consuming good food and drinks, all the things! I have one dog, a small black lab mutt, who is my world. On the internet, you can find me as @radredecology on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook.

Type 6 Interviews: Lindsay O'Connor & Becca Briggs

Type 6 Interviews: Lindsay O’Connor & Becca Briggs

Posted on by melissakircher
“A Trusting Heart” – Melissa Kircher

Hello everyone, and welcome back to Enneagram Paths! Today, we have interviews with Lindsay O’Connor and Becca Briggs who are going to share their experiences as Enneagram Type Sixes.

Let’s take a quick look at the description of a Type Six by Dr. Jerome D. Lubbe, whose book, Whole Identity, outlines a brain-based take on the Enneagram. Click on the book title to check out his entire site and grab a copy of this groundbreaking Enneagram theory for yourself.

Dr. Lubbe uses the term ‘Loyalty’ to summarize Type Sixes. Of Sixes, he says, “The innate human capacity reflected in 6 nature is the energy of loyalty. What 6 nature seeks and is motivated by is guarantees. [Their] primary style of engagement is thought. Positive limbic attachments reinforce a sense of being in concrete and promised. Negative limbic attachments are triggered fastest by unpredictability or insecurity. When overwhelmed, fatigue expresses as anxiety. The primary and practical application for 6 nature is to breathe and practice silence. The healthy 6 nature in each of us is the most gifted at modeling our human capacity for courage.” (Whole Identity, Dr. Jerome D. Lubbe, pg. 59)

Thank you, Lindsay and Becca, for being here today and sharing with us what it means for you to live life as Six!

Lindsay O’Connor

1. What has it been like being a Type Six during Covid, quarantine, and social distancing? How have you coped?

In some ways, I think being a Six has made the pandemic more bearable because I’m used to worrying and planning for the worst-case scenario. Part of me has felt like, at least for the first few months when everything was shut down, the rest of the world was finally catching up to the anxiety, planning, and concern for safety that I always carry. I often feel invalidated in my anxiety, so in an odd way, having the whole world prioritize safety was validating. The more control I felt I had over the situation, the more settled and safe I felt, so when my husband, children, and I were all able to be at home, I felt reasonably safe. However, I am an introvert and have a pretty sizable 5 wing, so one of the greatest challenges during the pandemic has been the lack of alone time. I’ve had difficulty finding space to decompress and feel my own feelings without worrying about how they are impacting family members.

One of my greatest needs is for certainty, which has been very difficult during this odd in-between time when everything keeps changing. Because I cope with anxiety through planning, I’ve struggled with not being able to plan very far in advance as so many things have been subject to change in this phase of the pandemic. I’ve had to learn to hold things loosely and to create my own routines (for myself and for our children) in order to feel some sense of security and control. Structure helps settle my anxiety because it allows me a small degree of predictability when so many things are out of my control.

As a rule-follower who looks to authority figures to offer a sense of guidance and safety, I’ve struggled with the lack of unity and consistent messaging from those in authority (in the government, healthcare, etc.). Deep down, I believe that rules for the common good keep us safe, so it has been frustrating to see everyone disagreeing about the best ways to protect ourselves and others during the pandemic.

2. What is the thing you like the most about being a Six?

My favorite thing about being a Type Six is our concern for and commitment to the common good. I generally want, can envision, and am committed to working toward whatever is most beneficial for everyone, including and especially people whose perspectives have often been ignored, dismissed, or invalidated. I believe in the importance of working toward a group consensus and everyone having agency to be involved in the decisions that affect them.

3. Tell us about fear or doubt. How do you engage with fear/doubt and calm it so that you feel internal peace and trust in yourself?

The first and most basic step for me in engaging and calming fear and doubt has been increased awareness. Enneagram work has taught me to practice non-judgmental self-observation. In the past, I had attached a lot of shame to my anxiety (in general but especially pertaining to postpartum depression and anxiety disorder), so for several years, I’ve been working on becoming more shame-resilient and developing self-compassion. This has helped me to have healthier self-talk. When I recognize fear creeping in, I try to talk myself through it with kindness. When I start second-guessing a decision I made, I remind myself of all the things I did to make the best decision I could. I’m working on really believing that making a decision and then changing my mind doesn’t mean it was a bad decision or that I should not have trusted myself; it simply means that at any given moment, I am making the best decision I can with the information that is available to me.

I use some regular practices and routines to lower my baseline of anxiety as well as tools and mantras that I use in the moment when anxiety is ramped up. Therapy, spiritual direction, Enneagram work, and contemplative practices have helped immensely over time as sort of preventative measures or “maintenance.” Contemplative prayer has been especially beneficial in quieting my mind and getting in touch with my inner knowing, which acts as an anchor I can return to when I get caught up in the stress of daily life. Being outside and moving my body (usually with walks or yoga) helps me integrate my body, mind, and heart. As a head/thinking type, I’m working on reconnecting with my body as a way to get in touch with my real feelings.

I love to write and have found that it allows me to process what I’m thinking. I try to notice when I’m overly concerned with checking in with others for validation instead of trusting my own inner knowing. When I’m feeling especially anxious, I often turn to my body and try to discover what it needs (water, movement, rest, etc.). Viewing my anxiety as something that I carry and can befriend instead of something I need to get rid of has allowed me to see myself as a whole person and not to over-identify with it. When I’m struggling, a mantra that I use is, “You won’t feel this way forever.” Uncomfortable feelings are like waves, and it helps to remember that if I ride them out, they will pass.

4. How do you use your Stress Arrow to Type Three to help you these days? Are there any tips you’d give other Sixes about choosing some of the high-side traits of Three to be of service to you in stress?

The energy I tap into from my stress move to Three is very helpful when I’m feeling paralyzed by fear (on the low/unhealthy side of 6). When the move happens, I often notice that I’m able to set the fear aside and focus on taking the next step, and then the next, in order to keep moving and accomplishing. I get a burst of energy with this move and accomplish a lot. It also increases my confidence, which often shows up when I am teaching or leading a group in some capacity. Those are some of the gifts of the move to Three. However, we (Sixes) need to be aware of when we are too dismissive of others’ feelings in this space, prioritizing tasks over people/relationships, and we need to make time to circle back to our own feelings after we have set them down for a while.

5. Are you a Social, Self-Preservation, or Sexual/One-to-One Subtype? What does this instinct look like in your daily life? How does it drive some of your behaviors, thoughts, and feelings?

I identify the most with the self-preservation subtype. I’ve heard it described as the “warm” subtype (compared to social, which is cool, and sexual, which is hot). For Sixes, this means we are family-oriented, warm, and disarming. All Sixes deal with anxiety and a need for safety, and my subtype means that often the method I use to feel safe is to be warm and disarming towards other people. I think this (subconsciously) is a way that I try to endear myself to others in order to build a strong support system. My disarming behaviors look like avoidance of conflict, being (sometimes overly) accommodating of others, and moving towards others to fulfill their needs.

My subtype also means that most of my anxiety is around health and safety for myself and the people for whom I am responsible. All Sixes are concerned with being responsible and fulfilling duty, and as a self-preserving type, this is focused on practical, daily responsibilities involved in keeping my family and myself healthy and safe. I’m (sometimes overly) focused and intentional with practical physical needs like meal planning, keeping up with doctor appointments, paying bills, etc.

6. From the perspective of a Type Six, how can we best support each other during these difficult times? 

I believe that we can love and support others best when we feel healthy, whole, and loved ourselves. As I have worked on developing deeper self-compassion, I’ve noticed that I am more resilient and secure in my identity so I am in a healthier place to be present to the suffering of others. We can support one another by checking in, especially with people who might easily fall through the cracks, and listening and being present to people’s pain without trying to fix it. We can learn to recognize and own the privileges from which we have benefitted and make intentional efforts to listen to and follow the lead of those who have been marginalized in various parts of their identities. As we listen and develop relationships with people who have had different life experiences than we have, we can begin to see concrete ways to stand in solidarity with people who are suffering. For me as a Six, the support I often need and therefore the support I usually give involves listening to and validating people’s experiences without judging them. When we validate each other’s struggles, we can then find common ground where we can connect and work together to make the world a more just and compassionate place.

Lindsay O’Connor has been working with the Enneagram for about five years and is on staff part-time at Life in the Trinity Ministry, which was founded by Enneagram Teacher Suzanne Stabile and Reverend Joseph Stabile. Her favorite job is being mama to her two daughters. She is a writer, reader, former teacher, and most recently, a seminary student. Lindsay is passionate about cultivating spaces and conversations for healing, reconciliation, and flourishing in relationship with God, others, and self. She can usually be found with her nose in a book.

Where to find Lindsay:

Instagram & Twitter: @lindsayloconnor

Facebook page: Rooted in Love https://www.facebook.com/yindsal
Blog: http://blog.lindsayoconnor.com

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Becca Briggs

1. What has it been like being a Type Six during Covid, quarantine, and social distancing? How have you coped?

I will admit, the beginning months of Covid were TERRIFYING for me. I couldn’t even go to the grocery store without having a panic attack and felt like I needed to take every precaution necessary. I wouldn’t say it’s been an easy time, but once I quit focusing on the uncertainty and lack of control of everything happening around me, the change of pace and increase in introspection has been extremely beneficial. For years I was in a go-go-go mode, working constantly and extremely stressed on a daily basis. Being able to slow down and figure out what I TRULY want has given me the space and resources to live a simpler, more intuitively guided life instead of reacting to everything around me. I have coped by spending lots of time in nature, learning and starting my own business, and strengthening the relationships with the people closest to me. Having the mental/emotional support of my boyfriend, friends, and mom has honestly made the world of difference in how my quarantine experience played out.

2. What is the thing you like the most about being a Six?

Two things stand out the most. The first, although somewhat stereotypical, is the amount of loyalty given. Although at times it’s maybe caused more harm than good, I do take pride in my level of commitment. It’s hard to find people who truly put their dedication into relationships, jobs, projects, experiences, etc. and I would rather put my full heart and soul in than be half-in and half-out. Secondly, I like being such a deep thinker. As long as I’m not TOO caught up in my head, I actually do enjoy seeing many perspectives, putting puzzle pieces together, finding solutions, and the mental planning and organizing that occurs. I feel like I notice things others don’t, making this a valuable and appreciative skill.

3. Tell us about fear or doubt. How do you engage with fear/doubt and calm it so that you feel internal peace and trust in yourself?

Fear and Doubt feel like the Angel/Devil figures that sit on my shoulders, giving advice and guidance, except both of them can cause a chaotic mental spiral if I’m not careful. This has been a main area of growth for me in my personal development, and I’d be lying if I said they still don’t present themselves to me on a daily basis. One of the biggest lessons I’ve learned is to find the balance in embracing them for what they are, instead of trying to repress or ignore them, yet not allowing them to control me or my life. Ultimately both fear and doubt are there to protect me, so I honor them as such, but know that just because they’re trying to help doesn’t mean that I NEED their help. They’re merely friends trying to give me suggestions for what to do. I take it into account, but at the end of the day, I make my OWN decision. A life hindered by fear and doubt isn’t a life lived at all, and more often than not pushing past our fears and doubts leads to the most AMAZING experiences that make it all worth it.

4. How do you use your Stress Arrow to Type Three to help you these days? Are there any tips you’d give other Sixes about choosing some of the high-side traits of Three to be of service to you in stress?

This is something I’ve been utilizing recently. I used to ONLY use it as a way to keep myself busy and distract myself from my worries and thoughts. But I’ve found that using it in an intentional and helpful way can actually be extremely beneficial. I either focus on projects that I can easily complete, especially if they’re collaborative or in a way that helps others, or do some strategic planning for myself; personal/professional goal planning, task management, scheduling, etc. – something to get me out of my head and into healthy productive action. The biggest tip I can give to other Six types is to make sure that the actions you take are intentional. Don’t just work to work. Don’t overload yourself just to prove something. Don’t get competitive to test yourself or others. It’s ultimately like a drug, that you never feel better after once you’ve “sobered up”, and trust me I spent YEARS chasing the “high” of overexerting myself. Instead, take healthy actions. Stay “busy” in ways that matter instead of distract. “Compete” with yourself by reaching goals for what you want. You don’t have to prove anything to yourself or anyone else, it feels so much better to stay focused on and true to you and your big-picture vision.

5. Are you a Social, Self-Preservation, or Sexual/One-to-One Subtype? What does this instinct look like in your daily life? How does it drive some of your behaviors, thoughts, and feelings?

My instinct is Self-Preservation, and it shows up in a variety of ways. Firstly, I look to an authority figure in my life. I like knowing I have someone there, helping support and protect me, and letting me know if they see any red flags in any decisions I consider risky. Although I’m currently working on not relying on outside validation as much, it’s nice to have it as a tool to ease my doubts. I’m also someone who prioritizes my physical/mental wellbeing. For example, in the past, I wasn’t able to date or pursue relationships until I had my work/financial/health/living situations figured out, because those took up most (if not all) of my mental capacity. In spending time with friends, if I don’t feel safe/comfortable (physically or emotionally), become too hungry or tired, or get too socially drained (as an introvert) I either won’t go or will leave immediately if I’m already there, and if I’m stressed or overwhelmed, I tend to go off the radar until I feel in a good-enough state to talk to people again. None of this is meant to be rude or uncaring to others, it’s simply a survival thing. Lastly, it’s also given me the unfortunate “worst-case-scenario”  thought process. Although I don’t always express it, in my head I’m usually ALWAYS playing out scenarios – especially the worst or craziest ones – down to the last detail. I’m always prepared for the worst, that way if ever it does happen I’ll be prepared to do anything and everything I can to get through it – both for myself and anyone else involved. Because of this though, I have a tendency to be spaced out in my head for a long time if I don’t have something actively taking my attention

6. From the perspective of a Type Six, how can we best support each other during these difficult times? 

I believe the best support right now is through community and compassion. There is an amount of personal responsibility that needs to be taken right now, but instead of focusing only on ourselves, I think people should look at the entirety of how their actions will impact others. We are all connected whether or not we want to admit it, and all of our actions have consequences, so being a contribution to the solution and taking any helpful steps will go far. The only way we can get through this without inflicting more chaos and damage is through having empathy and understanding for each other and taking actions to better ourselves and our world instead of focusing on things through a personal funnel of what we WANT to see.

Becca Briggs is a certified life coach and freelance artist, specializing in helping other intuitive creatives reconnect with their passions and purposes through personal development, organizational/strategic planning, and energetic/mindset work. She is dedicated to helping people develop deeper understandings of themselves using tools like the Myers-Briggs, Enneagram, and NLP so they can live their best, most confident, creative, and authentic lives.

Where to find Becca:

Social Media: @thebeccabriggs

Website: www.beccabriggs.com

An Enneagram Two During a Pandemic: Andréa Mcinnis

An Enneagram Two During a Pandemic: Andréa Mcinnis

Posted on by melissakircher

Welcome back, Enneagram Paths friends! Today we hear from another fantastic person on what it’s like to move about in the world with Type Two energy. As we deal with the ongoing pandemic, it’s important to listen to each other, absorb how others are experiencing life, and learn how we each deal with these unprecedented times in a myriad of ways. Thank you, Andréa, for being here today!

1. What has it been like being a Type Two during Covid, quarantine and social distancing? How have you coped?

Being a Two during Covid has definitely had its ups and downs. I moved to Nashville in August of 2019 and didn’t make many friends until January of 2020. So, in some ways, it wasn’t a whole different than when I first moved because I didn’t know many people. So, I utilized what I did when I wasn’t as rooted. While I couldn’t meet with my friends in person, we would FaceTime almost every day. I also joined a small group with my church that met over Zoom. In some ways, it was hard because my love languages are physical touch and quality time, but FaceTiming and phone calls helped fill my social quota. My friends and I would also use Netflix party and play games over zoom, which was a lot of fun! At the beginning of quarantine, I also made sure to go outside as much as possible and have some kind of routine. Since things have opened up more, it’s gotten easier to do social distancing activities!

2. What is the thing you like the most about being a Two? 

The thing I like most about being an Enneagram Two is that it’s pretty easy to make friends. Most people trust me relatively quickly. 

3. Tell us about pride. How do you engage with pride and calm it, so that you’re able to know you are loved, liked and wanted just as you are?

A lot of therapy and self-care. My therapist and I talk a lot about meeting my own needs and affirming myself—instead of gaining those things from friends and family. I’m also learning that when I have expectations that others to receive what I give them (time, encouragement, etc.), I have to voice those expectations. It’s definitely challenging and doesn’t come easy, but I’m slowly making progress. Intentional self-care has also helped. Claiming that I am caring for myself by watching a TV show or going to the gym instead of just doing it has allowed me to become friends with myself and not so heavily rely on others to fill that need of feeling loved.

4. How do you use your Stress Arrow to Type Eight to help you these days? Are there any tips you’d give other Twos about choosing some of the high side traits of Eight to be of service to you in Stress?

One of the ways I use my Stress Arrow is through voicing my needs or feelings when I’m stressed or feel like there’s a strain in a relationship. At a certain point, I stop hinting at what I want and express it directly. A tip I would say is to voice your needs when you need them instead of waiting. Obviously, it’s way easier said than done, but it reduces stress to be more direct. There is a nice way of expressing one’s needs without sounding harsh. Find safe people you can practice voicing your needs on!

5. Are you a Social, Self-Preservation, or Sexual/One-to-One Subtype? What does this instinct look like in your daily life? How does it drive some of your behaviors, thoughts, and feelings?

I am a Self-Preservation Subtype. When I first read about the Enneagram, the Self-Preservation Two convinced me that I was a Two! It comes out in being carefree and silly whenever possible. Finding experiences that make me happy and that are life-giving are common practices of mine. It shows up in my relationships as well. I want to be the fun one that people want around but can also go deeper with. Opening up to even close friends can be harder for me because I would rather not have the focus on myself. 

6. From the perspective of Type Two, how can we love each other well during these difficult times? 

Give each other grace. Everyone is doing the best they can with what they’re given. Also, look outside yourself. We need community now more than ever. Utilize FaceTime, Zoom, Netflix party, social distancing picnics, or walks. Check-in on your friends and family, especially those who are struggling, and the ones that check-in on you. We all need a little encouragement. 

Hi! My name is Andréa! I’m twenty-eight-years-old, and I am an Enneagram 2w1 Seattle native living in Nashville, Tennessee. I’m currently a barista, and I’m in my second year of grad school for counseling. My dream is to do therapy with kids and adolescents, primarily through animal therapy. I’m a lover of animals, friends, lattes, and Taylor Swift. On days that I’m not working or doing school, I love to be outside exploring state parks, hiking, and being in the sunshine. I also enjoy traveling (when there isn’t a pandemic) and spending my time with my close friends, family, and dog Scooter. 

Twitter: @drizziedrebae

Instagram: @andrea_mcinnis

Two Twos: Interview with Elizabeth Dodds and Corrie Wilson

Two Twos: Interview with Elizabeth Dodds and Corrie Wilson

Posted on by melissakircher

Hello Enneagram Paths friends! Glad to have you this Monday to learn more about what it means to lead with Type Two! Here on Enneagram Paths, I like to ask the same questions of different people within a type; I find it highlights every person’s nuance and complexity. It’s similar to the Narrative Enneagram Tradition, where you learn type through panels and listening to stories. I’m so excited to have these wonderful people here today to talk about Type Twos during a global pandemic, how they’re coping, and what wisdom they have to share. Thank you both for being open; we’re grateful for your words and presence!

Elizabeth Dodds

1. What has it been like being a Type Two during Covid, quarantine, and social distancing? How have you coped?

I have found myself wanting to cocoon myself in my home even more. Making my home a comfortable, happy place for myself and my family. It has been very hard having my two oldest children living three hours away during unsure times. Feeding my family and having them all under one roof is kind of a balm to my soul, so this has been tough! Social distancing has also given me a pass not to be ‘on’ at all times, like when at the grocery store, etc. The masks and need to keep distanced is permitting me not to have to engage or have conversations or connections when I’d rather not. Feelings don’t get hurt! 

2. What is the thing you like the most about being a Two?

I love many things about being a Two (and dislike just as many). The thing I love the most is the ability to bring people comfort. Creating an environment within my home or my personal space lets people feel at ease and loved. 

3. Tell us about pride. How do you engage with pride and calm it, so that you’re able to know you are loved, liked, and wanted just as you are?

Pride is a trait I haven’t quite mastered, whether too much or too little. I find myself downplaying my successes and dismissing compliments often. Feeling loved and liked for just who I am…this is my struggle still. 

4. How do you use your Stress Arrow to Type Eight to help you these days? Are there any tips you’d give other Twos about choosing some of the high side traits of Eight to be of service to you in Stress?

My stress move to a Type Eight has been showing itself more often! I think the election season pushed it into gear. I have been voicing my opinions more readily and trying not to quiet myself for others’ approval.

5. Are you a Social, Self-Preservation, or Sexual/One-to-One Subtype? What does this instinct look like in your daily life? How does it drive some of your behaviors, thoughts, and feelings?

I identify with the Sexual/One-to-One subtype. Craving connection, commonality, heightened energy, family connections, people that you just ‘click’ with. This is something that has been there since the beginning. I take note of the energy I receive from people and try to take note. On a daily basis, I see this at work. I am in retail, and connections with people are what keeps loyal customers coming back. That spark, the ability to notice something or someone, matters. You would think this would mean I have tons of deep connections, but it feels easier to connect with others about themselves and keep their connection to me on a surface level. Few are as close to me as they may feel. 

6. From the perspective of a Type Two, how can we love each other well during these difficult times?

 Loving others right now can be difficult, right? I’m having a hard time myself! What we can do is love our own family and friends with a fierce and unwavering love. Stand up for those who need your support and voice. Don’t shy away from difficult conversations and risk disconnecting from someone you love to avoid the awkwardness. I don’t have an answer, really, but I do know that reaching outside of ourselves and reaching into our communities is love. That is what I plan to do more of in 2021.

>Connect with Elizabeth on Twitter at @llizziedodds & Instagram at @elizabeth.dodds

Corrie Wilson

1. What has it been like being a Type Two during Covid, quarantine, and social distancing? How have you coped?

I’m an introverted Type Two, so that part is okay. I’m also a Social Subtype Two, so I really focus more on community-level things. What’s been hard for me is the BLM protests and things like that. I want to go do all of it, but I don’t feel safe. When I hear about the need for volunteers to work at the vaccine sites, I wonder if I can do it and not be exposed to people. 

2. What is the thing you like the most about being a Two?

Rooting for the underdog. I’ve always done that since I was little.

3. Tell us about pride. How do you engage with pride and calm it, so that you’re able to know you are loved, liked, and wanted just as you are?

I always have to ask myself, “Is this mine to do?” It’s challenging for me to remember that I am loved and needed even if I’m not helping. 

4. How do you use your Stress Arrow to Type Eight to help you these days? Are there any tips you’d give other Twos about choosing some of the high side traits of Eight to be of service to you in Stress?

I haven’t really done any work with this part of the Enneagram yet. It took me a while to accept that I am a Two because I didn’t want to be. I felt that it made me weak, going around begging for love. 

5. Are you a Social, Self-Preservation, or Sexual/One-to-One Subtype? What does this instinct look like in your daily life? How does it drive some of your behaviors, thoughts, and feelings?

I am a Social Two. Sometimes Type Two things don’t seem to apply to me, because I am an introvert and don’t really do a lot of the typical “bring the casserole to the family who just had a baby” type things. But as I said above, my focus is on community-level things. I struggle because I want to be involved in ALL the causes. Kids in cages at the border? I should go down there and use my psychology degree to help! Immigrants going to court without interpreters? Who do I know who can translate, and can I get them down there? I can’t watch the news anymore because it’s too difficult; I want to help everyone with everything. When I was little, my mom would tell me, “You don’t have to save the world today.” And sometimes, my husband still has to tell me that.  

6. From the perspective of a Type Two, how can we love each other well during these difficult times?

The thing I say all the time is that people are what matter. If you aren’t doing stuff to help people, what are you doing? If you are doing something that hurts people, stop it! I know it’s easier said than done, but that’s what I try to focus on. 

>Connect with Corrie on Twitter at @Corrielw  & TikTok at @dr.corrie

*Cover Photo by McGill Library on Unsplash

Interview with Enneagram Type Four, Rima Lyn

Interview with Enneagram Type Four, Rima Lyn

Posted on by melissakircher

Hello Enneagram Paths, friends! Happy Monday, and welcome back! I hope all of you are finding ways to love yourself well, move deeper into acceptance and awareness, and listen to your body as we continue to navigate Covid-19 times.

Today we are lucky to hear from the fantastic Rima Lyn about her unique experiences as an Enneagram Type Four! Rima and I connected on Instagram, so make sure you scroll to the bottom of the interview to find the link to her excellent Ennea-IG page.

Hi Rima, thanks so much for being here today and talking to all of us about what it means for you to identify as a Type Four!

1. Emotions are dominant for Fours as part of the Heart Triad. How do emotions affect your daily life?

I am rather tempestuous and quick to have an emotional reaction. I am a trained actress and member of the Screen Actors Guild and was encouraged early on in classes to allow immediate reactions to flow on stage, be they tears, laughter or anger. There is a saying that acting is re-acting, and I find that to be true as a Type Four. As an Sx4, competition is something with which I struggle. I can be quite defensive because I imagine sleights that aren’t there to galvanize or motivate or protect myself. For a long time, I thought I could be a Type Eight though I am too elitist to help masses of downtrodden groups of people. I am generous with emotional support in a one-on-one setting. I was also an art teacher for ten years, and a safe place for other artists to feel their feelings. One of my favorite songs is ‘You’ve Gotta Have Heart” from Damn Yankees. Coincidence? 🙂

2. What happens when you’re stressed and go along your Arrow to Type Two? What happens when you’re in a healthy place and go along your Arrow to Type One? 

I believe that both the move to Type One and Type Two can be stressful if you are at a low level of development in your Type. Both moves can also be positive if you have done personal or Enneagram work. Type One energy can cause me to be more dutiful, more of a rigid perfectionist, not feel my feelings, or put someone else first at my own expense. I spent so long acting like a Type Two, that every test I took, including the recently updated Enneagram Institute test, typed me as a Two. I used to hide behind other artists and be a ‘helper’ so that I wouldn’t have to reveal my art or my point of view. It was safer to hide behind another ‘diva’ like personality. I realized I needed to be the diva for growth—a balanced diva who is at peace with my quirkiness and can allow myself to be an integral part of things instead of always hiding or holding back my true self. I feel more likable in Type Two space because I am soooooooo helpful and can move mountains for others, but barely grab a drink of water for myself.

3. How does Envy play out in your interactions with people? Do you find yourself comparing your life, experiences, career, etc. to others? 

I don’t do straight-up envy, but I do compare myself to others and then judge or beat myself up. I don’t wish people who have it more together than me would fail, but sometimes I assume something is wrong with me because I haven’t achieved the thing they have seemingly easily accomplished: damaged goods and all that.

4. Talk a little about the desire to be unique. Why is this so important to you? Is it important? How do you try to be a unique person in daily life? 

I got a lot of verbal reinforcement from my grandmother that there was no one like me. That I was 100% original and that I could do anything. My grandmother also used to recite a nursery rhyme to me, “When she was good, she was very, very good and when she was bad she was horrid.” Of the five people in my immediate family, I felt she was the only one who got me, so I used creativity as a way to feel productive. Since I had a unique name, a scratchy voice, intense eyes, and a lot of talent for the performing arts, very early on I saw that if I couldn’t fit in it was good to be special, original, and entertaining. I like to use the phrase “hip geek” or “cool nerd” to describe myself, and I’m getting better about wanting to fit into a group of misfits/creatives vs. being the loner that no one understands. As an Sx4 I have a lot of passion and zeal—I work on using these traits to help me from getting bogged down in melancholy. I fight against it and try to be as productive as possible (3w.)

5. Talk about what the words Discipline and Objectivity mean to you today. 

I hate discipline so much!!!!! ACK. For years it was all about “when I feel like it and at no other time.” Every meal was about what I was craving, every radio choice, what song I was in the mood for. Exercising to exercise, writing every day as a practice, sticking to a diet—these were all things I could not do until I embraced my Five Wing and the high side of Type One. Equanimity—but without being a boring zombie robot—that is the goal.

6. What does the phrase, “You are good enough,” mean to you? 

It means I don’t have to be perfect. I don’t have to jump through hoops. It means self-acceptance and forgiveness.

7. Are there any spiritual practices you are drawn to as a Type Four? 

Beauty in nature. Appreciating the sublime. The perfection of imperfection. Believing in the arts and the magic of creativity and self-expression.

8. Do you know if you have a Three or Five Wing? If so, tell us about how your Wing supports and enhances your Type Four characteristics.

If I lean into my 3w, I get to stay in the Heart Triad, but I’m less emotional and more productive. If I lean into my 5w, I get some genius, brilliant, maverick inspiration, and ideas that come to me fully formed. These ideas clearly originate from the ether, and I can find the courage to be truly original.

Rima Lyn is a longtime educator in the creative arts. Her writing has appeared in Art Magazine, Quercus Review Press, Schuylkill Valley Journal of the Arts, and Voices de la Luna. She was awarded 3rd place in the 2020 Writer’s Digest contest for screenplays and is a 2019 Nicholl Quarter Finalist. A graduate of UCLA’s Film History program, you can read her take on Mexican food at http://tacomaven.blogspot.com

Instagram: @enneagramista

Are you a Type Four that would like a Certified Enneagram Coach to help you move into deeper authenticity, wisdom, and self-love? Book a free 15-minute consultation with me right now! – Melissa **FREE CONSULT**

The Enneagram & Parenting: Chasing Joy 100 Ways Podcast

The Enneagram & Parenting: Chasing Joy 100 Ways Podcast

Posted on by melissakircher

It was an honor and joy to talk to Nicole Groenewald on her Chase Joy 100 Ways podcast this week. We discussed how parents can use aspects of the Enneagram to create safe, expansive, and aware spaces for their kids to grow! You can listen on Apple Podcasts and all podcast streaming apps.

Click on the picture below to go right to the podcast and listen. I hope you enjoy!

Enneagram Eights: Carly Bergey & Greta Sutherland

Enneagram Eights: Carly Bergey & Greta Sutherland

Posted on by melissakircher
“One of the greatest regrets in life is being what others would want you to be, rather than being yourself.” ― Shannon L. Alder

Good morning Enneagram Paths people! I hope you are safe and well. I’m sending out love, presence, and light to you all during these heavy times.

Today, we finish the Type Eight series with two amazing people in the house! Carly Bergey and Greta Sutherland have graciously allowed me to interview them and ask what it’s like to be a Type Eight. Their answers put me in the mind, body, and emotions of an Eight and are so helpful! It’s great to hear from real people about how the Enneagram is impacting their lives. Thank you both for sharing your thoughts and experiences!

Carly Bergey

1. In what ways do you use your easy access to anger for good? What are some healthy outlets (when not saving the world or protecting others) for your anger? I tend to be a person that speaks up about things, like that parent who continues to break the rules at the school drop-off line, or when a person glued to their phone is obviously blocking foot traffic on Main Street. It could be something bigger, like calling out a racist joke at work or when someone “accidentally” gropes me on a bus. I will speak up about it. The slowly simmering anger inside me is ready to appropriately respond and take action. 

2. What do Eights look for in others? What do we have to live up to? Where do we fall short? As an Enneagram Eight, I need my people to match my intensity. In my safe inner circle, I want others to celebrate, grieve, and fight with me. In social situations, I secretly hope others will not wither when I bring my A-game. I can be intense and wish more people had the confidence to really engage, disagree, even make fun of me.

3. What are three things you wished people understood about Eights? I want people to understand that what you perceive as anger from me may not be. My deep desire is to authentically connect, but sometimes, intensity becomes a substitute for intimacy. Something made us grow up too fast. The origin of our behavior is being unsafe at some point. I have a deeply tender core part of my identity, and assuming the best in me goes a long way. 

4. Do you have any spiritual practices and does your Enneagram number influence what you’re drawn to spiritually? Meditation, quiet, grounding practices like yoga help me. 

5. What happens to your closest relationship when you move in stress to your Arrow of Type Five? What happens to your closest relationships when you move in health/integration to your Arrow of Type Two? I communicate with my partner when I need to go into what I call “whale mode” (toward Type Five). I enjoy isolation, but don’t want to be forgotten. My partner will check in on me over the course of time and ask how I’m feeling. However, our general rule is: I don’t want to talk and I want to be alone. When moving toward Type Two, I tend to think about others more than myself, put their needs above myself, and try to do tangible works to make them feel happy. 

6. Speak about what it’s like to be in the Body Triad. How does your body absorb and process the daily life of your existence? For me, in stress, this means my body tends to communicate to me and that’s how I have honed my self awareness over the years. It starts in my body (and voice) and that literally helps me realize I need to reset in some way. The really interesting thing is to reverse stress, I also use body and voice work to access my nervous system so I can self-regulate. Sensory activities, humming, breath work helps a ton. 

7. What do you love about your number? What is frustrating about your number? I love going through life with confidence. I truly empathize with those who are lacking in it and much of my work involves giving away as much confidence as I can. I do feel frustrated by how much anger I feel at times. 

8. What do you think would happen if you were to let the soft, loving, vulnerable side of your heart be known to the world at large? The memoir I wrote is deeply emotional and vulnerable. I discuss my voice loss and recovery and those of my patients in it. I do hope if it ever releases, that I will be known for being loving and tender in addition to strong. That would make me very proud and speak to so much self care I’ve done over the years to be safe enough to do so.

9. What is your advice for parents of Type Eight children? As an Eight, I longed for the modeling of emotional regulation from my parents. Big feelings need big patience. On the flip side, Eights need trust. Trust that they can do the big thing they want to do. Give them tools to blow everyone away. Type Eight kids can start businesses, advocacy campaigns, clubs. We are natural leaders. Let us lead. Especially Eight girls. Show them they have a sit at the table.  

10. What do the words yield, affection, and empowerment mean to you these days?

Yield: My first thought is corrupt powers need to do this. 

Affection: It makes me slightly sad. I always need more than I seem to let on.

Empowerment: If leadership in US doesn’t give it, we will take it. 

Carly Bergey, M.A., CCC-SLP is a speech-language pathologist and writer with expertise in voice care. A rich, musical inheritance passed to her from hard-working gigging parents. This lead to the study of music at Belmont University and eventually a love of the science of voice as well. Now Carly uses her voice for work and play, helping other voices speak themselves into their stories more fully with authenticity and health. Her memoir details the transformative work of finding one’s voice and is currently seeking publication. She provides individual coaching sessions in person and via zoom. Contact her through www.carlybergey.com 

Greta Sutherland

1. In what ways do you use your easy access to anger for good? What are some healthy outlets (when not saving the world or protecting others) for your anger? This question is difficult since most all my answers come back to helping an ‘underdog’ in some form or another. For example: I got involved in the political process in 2008 and managed a field office to elect Obama. I poured a lot of energy into that process but…it was my anger over the lack of equal treatment for lower income peoples that instigated my involvement. I saw the vast discrepancy in education and work availability where I lived and decided to take action. But that was using my anger for standing up for people I felt needed my action by helping elect a candidate I felt was qualified to make serious change. Your disclaimer in the question made it very difficult to answer! 😊

I’ll answer the question this way: when anger fills me up, I release it by tackling a project I’ve been putting off. Undirected anger often helps re-direct my procrastination. Whether it’s cleaning or researching or taking a walk – anger almost always subsides when I USE MY HANDS and my body in a physical way. I’d love to say I take a 25-mile run when I get angry, but nah! I have many hobbies that are a way of engaging my hands which in turn frees my thoughts to sort themselves out. One of my favorite activities since I was a kid has been mowing the grass. It’s physical. It’s solitary. And it releases pent up angst as well as gives plenty of time to process through confusing feelings.

2. What do Eights look for in others? What do we have to live up to? Where do we fall short? It certainly doesn’t feel like an admirable thing to admit, but when I sniff out weakness of any kind in another person, I get frustrated and dismissive and have to consciously pay attention to anything they say because my tendency is to immediately write them off. I’m working hard on this. When a friend asks if I want to get together for coffee and we have the time and place decided in three texts or less – I’m ecstatic and have a high respect for that person. But when someone is ‘overly considerate’ and gives me a lot of ‘I don’t care, whatever you want’, it makes my insides twist. 

Honesty is of paramount importance to an Eight. ‘Little white lies’ equate to trickery which means you’re questioning my intelligence. To find out someone has been dishonest with me sticks with me and it’s hard to ever trust them again. Likewise, when someone is straight up honest with me, my respect for them (even if I disagree with what they’re saying) increases exponentially. Along these lines, passive-aggressive behavior is another form of dishonesty to an Eight. We value direct communication, so passive aggressiveness is not valued or respected.

3. What are three things you wished people understood about Eights? We are not all ‘bulls in a china closet’. I am very comfortable not being in charge…as long as I feel like someone competent IS in charge. I don’t have to be the loudest or the leader. Many times, in fact, I prefer not to be. (Although committee work is from the very depths of hell. Ugh!) If I perceive a lack of leadership, I will step in – but I don’t have to be in that position from the start.

I do not have to be right. I am willing to compromise if a well-thought-out alternative is presented. I’m willing to change, but only if it makes sense to do so. I can even go along with a change that I don’t agree with if it appears that the person in charge believes strongly in the new direction. Again, an Eights direct communication is offered as a helpful tool to get straight to the problem or issue but it is NOT intended to be offensive.

4. Do you have any spiritual practices and does your Enneagram number influence what you’re drawn to spiritually? This has taken many decades to figure out. Denominations that feel to me too ‘touchy feely’ in their worship make me markedly uncomfortable. I like a more cerebral approach to corporate worship and expression. It feels the most natural to me and more representative of my relationship with God. In the past few years I have learned the enormous value of meditation in my life. Prayer is an active process which generally involves a focus on the past and/or future. Meditation, by contrast, is a non-active process of staying grounded in the present moment. The right now. That’s how I differentiate these two imperative spiritual practices in my faith.

5. Speak about what it’s like to be in the Body Triad. How does your body absorb and process the daily life of your existence? Unfortunately anger and frustration works it way through my body in the form of high blood pressure, digestive issues, a red face and rapid heartbeat. This is another side effect I’ve had to learn to recognize. Catching the early warning signs and heading them off before they get out of control is something I have had to work at over and over again. Meditation breathing is a big help. The simple act of getting in the car and rolling the windows down helps realign the physical actions happening in my body. I’ve always wished I’d taken up boxing as an exercise because I think it would do a lot to relieve the stress that accumulates inside my body. Short answer: breathing and moving my body are key to a healthier way to process adversity.

6. What do you love about your number? What is frustrating about your number? I am a good leader when called on. I am intuitive and a good strategic planner. I am able to listen to other views and discern whether or not that would work better. I like the pre-thought I put into events because I usually have already foreseen the worst-case scenario and am able to avoid it with good organizational methods. I like that people will turn to me for honest insight and to get something accomplished in the most efficient way.

I become very frustrated with the differences in communication styles between an Eight and other numbers. It has caused a lot of relational harm over the years that was unintentional and often caught me completely off guard.

7. What do you think would happen if you were to let the soft, loving, vulnerable side of your heart be known to the world at large? Awkwardness comes to mind first. People perceive me to be one thing and it always feels immensely uncomfortable to show a more vulnerable side. Very very very few people have seen that side of me. I am the 90% underwater of the iceberg analogy. I share my thoughts often, but rarely do I share the feelings surrounding them. A common phrase in my life is, “I think that…” because that’s what is easiest to articulate my thoughts about a given topic. A big part of the reason I don’t communicate my feelings about a subject is that I have such a difficult time understanding what they are myself. I had a best friend in my young adult life that would listen to me wax eloquent about an event or issue and after I was finished she would say, “And how did that make you feel?” She understood that was the part I was having the most trouble sifting through. Even now, I hear Charlene in my head asking me that question. Writing is my outlet for emotions. As I am writing, I am simultaneously learning how I feel about the topic.

8. What is your advice for parents of Type Eight children? Give your Eight child time!!! For instance, if they come home from a big event all excited and hyped up, a good response would be, “Let’s set some time tomorrow afternoon to talk about it. I’d love to hear what it was like.” 

Because Eights are intimate partners with anger, they don’t understand that there are other underlying feelings. I was embarrassed or felt ashamed or disappointed or sad. Those feelings don’t bubble up to the surface easily, it just all feels like anger. Help your child by modeling what those feelings are like in your own life. Identify them for yourself when they happen and what the context was in which they happened. An Eight will hear you talking about it and more readily identify it in their own life. (But don’t say, “I felt embarrassed and maybe that’s how you feel sometimes.” Telling an Eight how they feel has a very negative affect.)

The worst phrase in the English language is “Just chill.” AAAAAACCKK! I want to grab someone’s neck when they say that to me. Again, telling an Eight how they think or feel creates a very opposite and detrimental result. When at all possible, move your upset Eight child into action. I think if a parent would say to me, “We’ll talk about this later. For right now, we’re going to go on a walk around the block but we cannot talk to each other until we get to Kellie’s house. Or until we get home.” Giving them the excuse to not ‘talk about it’ immediately will allow them time to process. Another helpful tool for me as a child would have been to suggest (but not in a punitive way), ‘Why don’t you sit down this evening and write me a letter describing how this situation made you feel and why you reacted the way you did. Then we’ll talk about it; maybe I missed something that you understood.’

Saying ‘this is what you need to do today’ is very constricting to an Eight child. Or adult! Where at all possible, saying ‘this needs to get done by this date’ allows the child constitution to decide when the chore needs to be completed. It puts them in control of the outcome and that’s where they like to be.

An adult side-note: The adage ‘Never go to bed angry’ is advice that does not necessarily apply to an Eight. Making a plan to talk about something at a later time allows the Eight to work through that Big Ball of Anger (that greatly resembles a ball of rubber bands) and to begin sorting through all the junk they’re feeling in their bodies, lay them out neatly on the table in front of them and then sort through everything again for the things that would be useful to discuss. Whether it’s working with an Eight child or working with an Eight spouse, when it’s time to talk about things, ask questions! ask questions! ask questions! (Big big BIG advice!) Don’t just say ‘Tell me about what you’re feeling.’ It’s virtually impossible for an Eight to do that. But when you start asking me specific questions, I can articulate my feelings best because it gives me small chunks of information to work through at a time.

Greta Williams Sutherland: I am retired from the non-profit world of environmental advocacy. I’m currently a book reviewer for book publishers and an obsessive houseplant hoarder, living in Northern California (transplanted from Kansas City, Missouri – GO CHIEFS!) with my Seven husband who works for Union Pacific Railroad. We are adventurers at heart and enjoy traveling at any available moment, exploring and experiencing new cultures and environments. 
Blog: botanyandbookends.com

Instagram: instagram.com/botanyandbookends

Twitter: twitter.com/gretarains

Enneagram 8: April Jordan

Enneagram 8: April Jordan

Posted on by melissakircher

Welcome back to Enneagram Paths! Thank you for being here during strange and difficult times. I’m sending out love and light to all of you as we collectively deal with the tragedy and hardships of Covid-19. Please feel free to reach out if you need support. Coaching is a deeply intuitive space where, together, we explore places that need healing, embodiment, and self-love.

Today, I’m honored to have April Jordon on the blog to talk about her experiences as an Enneagram Type Eight.

The Enneagram Institute says this about Eights, “Eights are self-confident, strong, and assertive. Protective, resourceful, straight-talking, and decisive, but can also be ego-centric and domineering. Eights feel they must control their environment, especially people, sometimes becoming confrontational and intimidating. Eights typically have problems with their tempers and with allowing themselves to be vulnerable. At their Best: self- mastering, they use their strength to improve others’ lives, becoming heroic, magnanimous, and inspiring. [They] want to be self-reliant, to prove their strength and resist weakness, to be important in their world, to dominate the environment, and to stay in control of their situation.” (Type Eight, The Enneagram Institute)

Thanks, April, for sharing about your experiences as a Type Eight with all of us!

1. In what ways do you use your easy access to anger for good? What are some healthy outlets (when not saving the world or protecting others) for your anger? My anger fuels me in the best way. I love accessing my anger because it drives me to solve problems big and small (why not save the world if you can, right?). I can’t stand inaction, and become quickly frustrated when issues are at a standstill, so I take that anger and channel it into finding solutions that work for everybody. I do my utter best to further the interests of the group (social subtype 8 here!)

2. What do Eights look for in others? What do we have to live up to? Where do we fall short? I look for honesty, honesty, honesty! I have mad respect for anyone who can just “own their shit.” I love it when people know who they are and can ask for their needs to be met, set healthy boundaries and help others while they’re at it. 

To live up to that, start by being honest with yourself first. I know it’s hard sometimes and can be an ongoing process, but it’s so worth it when you come out the other side as a powerful, free, generous and self-loving being. Plus the healthy 8s in your life will love you for it.

People tend to fall short, for me, because they avoid pain and discomfort. I really think this is the root of a lot of the seemingly benign dishonesty in the world. People simply don’t want to deal with things, so they tell what seems to be a little white lie. But I firmly believe that telling lies, even small ones, takes the other person’s power away, and that’s not cool with me. 
And I should note that, of course, there are some things that are just nobody’s business, you don’t want to get into, or you’re not at liberty to share. I wouldn’t consider hiding that a lie. But if the information involves another person or could affect their life, I so appreciate when people are real about that stuff.

3. What are three things you wished people understood about Eights? Well, I can only really speak for myself, but here are three things I wish people understood about me as an 8:


– I want the factual truth, the whole factual truth, and nothing but the factual truth. Every time. Knowing the cold hard facts helps me feel secure and (again) like you’re being honest and looking out for me, too. Once I know the facts, I normally move to compassion and start looking for those solutions I love so much – even if the solution is just to sit and listen to you tell me about your day.


– I know I can seem intense. I’m working on knowing when and where to let that all hang out – promise! In the meantime, please do me a solid and know that I’m not angry at you. If I’m angry at you specifically, I will say so! 


– I act like I have it all together, and most of the time I genuinely do. But if you’re one of my close friends or family it means so much to me if I know I can rely on you for support on the days when I’m feeling run down. And on that vein, please don’t assume I can help you out or pick up the slack on something. I am probably willing and able, but please ask first – haha! This isn’t usually an issue in my life – my family and friends are the bomb. But I’m putting it out there for anyone reading this!


4. Do you have any spiritual practices and does your Enneagram number influence what you’re drawn to spiritually? I grew up Christian, but recently abandoned the faith after years and years of searching for answers to my big questions and coming up dry. I talk about this a lot on a podcast I co-host called the Curiously Strong Podcast. Nowadays, I do yoga – I love the quiet strength it takes to stay in the poses and stay present through the pain. It’s a great release for me. I also do a lot of adult coloring books. I find it somewhat meditative.


5. What happens to your closest relationship when you move in stress to your Arrow of Type Five? What happens to your closest relationships when you move in health/integration to your Arrow of Type Two? Going to Type Five looks like losing sight of my intuition and researching the crap out of everything to feel strong and capable again, which takes up a lot of time. I withdraw to spend time on my projects, distance myself from my spouse, friends and family, and hoard energy and resources. It strains my marriage because there is a clear divide between my normal energetic self and my stressed self. Also, if people reach out, I often don’t reply for fear that they want something from me that I can’t provide. It becomes very, very lonely and stressful.


Going to Type Two looks like building community and spending energy looking after others. I become more willing to bend to meet the needs of my spouse, friends and family and lose a bit of my “edge” (which always makes me a little sad, I have to say). I open up and become a little more comfortable with my feelings. Going to Two is incredibly painful because I realize how isolated I usually am and how protected I usually try to be. It’s worth it, though. The people around me are so kind. 


6. Speak about what it’s like to be in the Body Triad. How does your body absorb and process the daily life of your existence? Oh boy. Where to begin! One thing I do is “somatize” everything, which means that everything I experience mentally or emotionally creates a distinct bodily response. For example, stress isn’t experienced as an emotion, rather my neck and jaw will tense up. If someone is upset with me, I don’t respond with emotion and may not even think much of it, but my stomach may become upset. When I accomplish something, I can feel a wave of peace and ease wash over my body. If I’m really happy, I can almost feel electricity coursing through my body, spurring me forward! It’s really hard to describe what this is like, but in short, almost everything happens as a body response first, then a mental response, then an emotional response. I hope that makes sense!

7. What do you love about your number? What is frustrating about your number? Healthy 8s are just the best, haha!! I am proud to be part of a group who shows up 110% to everything and has the strength to affect real change and empower others to do the same. I love my confidence and how much I care about “my people.” If you’re someone I love and trust, I’d give my left arm to keep you healthy and safe! Unhealthy 8s, however, are awful. Having such strength and determination is pretty destructive if we don’t pay attention to others’ needs and where they’re at.


8. What do you think would happen if you were to let the soft, loving, vulnerable side of your heart be known to the world at large? People would take advantage of it. That’s about all there is to it, haha!


9. What is your advice for parents of Type Eight children? (Totally selfish question!) If you strictly enforce a rule, be willing to explain the logic behind it. Nothing made me want to smash through boundaries like the “because I said so” answer. If I was still asking “why?” it was because the adults hadn’t convinced me that what they were telling me to do was a good or efficient or logical idea. 8 kids are smart – give us logic!


10. What do the words yield, affection, and empowerment mean to you these days? Yield – yikes. This one is hard for me, but I’m getting better. I selectively choose people who are clearly better than me at things and try to learn from them. I am willing to take a backseat to someone who can prove their competence and confidence in an area. 


Affection – another yikes! This word really gives me the heebie-jeebies. But again, I think I’m getting better. I have a lot of 9s and 2s (or w2s) around me and I appreciate their softness. They give me space to open up slowly and test the waters at my own pace. 


Empowerment – HELL YEAH! I love this word. I generally feel so empowered in life – like the world is mine for the taking – and I want that for everyone else. As a social 8, I do my very best to spread the power and help others, especially women, find it within themselves. You’ve got this!

April Jordan is a sustainability and social justice advocate from Vancouver, BC, Canada. By day she slings words as a Communications professional, and by night she slings words some more with her sustainable lifestyle and fashion blog and Instagram – The Honest Root. Other than that, you can usually find April up a mountain, in a coffee shop or thrifting at a local vintage or consignment shop. She would love for you to reach out and connect about any of the afore mentioned topics, or just to say hello.

Social Media:

Twitter: @thehonestroot & @curiouslypod
Instagram: @thehonestroot & @curiouslystrongpod

Enneagram Type Eight: Marisa M. & Jose A. Noguera

Enneagram Type Eight: Marisa M. & Jose A. Noguera

Posted on by melissakircher

Hello, friends. It’s Monday….feels like years and years since last Monday, doesn’t it? I read a FB post the other day from a parent whose toddler kept asking, “Is today a day?” Poor kiddo could not understand what was up. Why is everybody at home? Seems about right to me! I want to send all of you love and light and hope wherever you can find it, and permission to let the darkness feel as big and scary as it needs to at times. Allow it all and know you’re not alone. We’re all here with you, a Oneness of being that surrounds you with love.

Today, I’m excited to have Marisa and Jose on the blog, sharing with you about their experiences as Enneagram Type Eights. Thank you both so much for being here! Let’s dive into their juicy interviews:

Marisa M.

1. In what ways do you use your easy access to anger for good? What are some healthy outlets (when not saving the world or protecting others) for your anger? Anyone who has any familiarity with Type Eights knows that when we’re angry about something, we don’t hesitate to jump into righting wrongs; whether they’ve been committed against us or someone else. I take care of myself all the time. But, I’ve also helped family and friends with financial, housing, healthcare, education, legal, personal, and local government issues, and made sure no one was taken advantage of. In a world where it’s every person for themselves, the folks who are most at risk seem to be the ones who have a harder time figuring out where to turn for safe, reliable help. That’s where Eights come in.

When I’m angry, I tend to have really good days in the gym. It’s a great catalyst for pushing myself harder than normal. Being active outdoors (hiking, biking, camping) has a very calming influence on me.

2. What do Eights look for in others? What do we have to live up to? Where do we fall short? As a Type Eight, I look for others to have strength of character and not shy away from me in timidity. I need them to understand that I crave opportunities to genuinely engage, especially with difficult but necessary conversations. I find this intense engagement intimate and vital to building strong relationships. I need folks to not betray me out of fear and throw me under the bus because they don’t have the courage to engage with me like a mature adult. As an Eight, where others see anger, I just see a normal conversation. I need people to be willing to explain to me how they’re perceiving me—what I can do to make the conversation safer for them and more productive for all of us.

3. What are three things you wished people understood about Eights?We’re passionate, not angry! We get worked up easily when it comes to injustices, but we’re not necessarily trying to steamroll anyone—we just want what’s right and fair, we want it yesterday, and we’ll do what it takes to make it happen. This urge is hard to temper. We’re eager to help, and that can sometimes come across as domineering, but that’s not at all the intent. Our passion for justice and helping lift others up tends to rev our energy levels, which is often interpreted as being controlling and dominating. We don’t mean it in a harmful way; we just have intense personalities. We are not assholes or dictatorial terrorists! We’re simply strong-willed and determined, and not about to sit down and shut up when we know we can do something to make a difference and help people. We’re really incredibly loving and nurturing, which is a byproduct of our inherent protective nature.

Bonus: The fact that I’m on fire about something doesn’t mean that I want to set the whole world on fire. I mean, I absolutely will if I deem it necessary. Without hesitating. I’m an Enneagram Eight, after all. But that’s not always the number one goal, or even on the radar.

4. Do you have any spiritual practices and does your Enneagram number influence what you’re drawn to spiritually? It’s my upbringing, really, that influences my spiritual practices. I don’t think my Eight-ness has much, if any, bearing on it. I pray, I reflect, I try to remain cognizant of the blessings in my life. That doesn’t seem too typically Eight to me…

5. What happens to your closest relationship when you move in stress to your Arrow of Type Five? What happens to your closest relationships when you move in health/integration to your Arrow of Type Two? When I move to Five, things get strained because I shut down and shut out. I withdraw, less to reflect and more to lick my wounds and cuss the situation (and often the other person(s) involved). When moving to Two, though, there’s an abundance of trust and openness and making space for those of us on each side.

6. Speak about what it’s like to be in the Body Triad. How does your body absorb and process the daily life of your existence? I get stressed when people won’t engage with me the way I need them to. When they won’t take the time to listen and understand me, and instead push me away thinking I’m being a jerk. When they won’t explain to me how I’m coming across and what I can do differently to engage with them in a more productive manner. The stress tends to hunker down in my neck and shoulders, so I feel it physically. I also tend to withdraw and shut down when it gets too intense, which negatively affects my mood.

7. What do you love about your number? What is frustrating about your number? I love that we’re readily willing to stand up for and protect not only ourselves, but others. I love that we’re loyal, often to a fault. I love that even though we run screaming from vulnerability, we still maintain the most incredible capacity for an intensely loving, protective nature.

It’s frustrating that my Eight-ness causes others to see me as intimidating and angry instead of passionate, strong, and determined. I dislike being so blunt; it hampers my abilities to hit pause and develop tact before proceeding. I dislike that my Eight-ness makes others want to distance themselves instead of (even just gently) stepping into the ring with me. I frustrate myself in terms of being so willing to jump in, instead of taking a hot second to survey the land and weigh possible options. I’m slowly learning to lean into my Nine wing to help in that regard.

8. What do you think would happen if you were to let the soft, loving, vulnerable side of your heart be known to the world at large? Folks might actually understand me better and not immediately conclude that I’m being a stereotypical Eight. But, vulnerability is scary and dangerous, and I was hurt horrifically the one time I dared to be completely vulnerable with someone. Because of that, I’m afraid I’d be hurt again if I took another stab at it. My girlfriend has been A-MAH-ZING in helping me process the trauma and damage, and slowly learn to let others in. It’s a work in progress…

9. What is your advice for parents of Type Eight children? (Totally selfish question!) Validate your kids. Allow them the freedom to live into who they are, their innate strength and desire to help and protect others, especially the younger ones. In fact, try to foster the Eight-ness in them, instead of trying to corral and control them. You’ll just tire yourself out and tick them off. In regards to the older, adult kids, don’t take us for granted. Yes, we’re always ready to take on a fight on your behalf, but it can be so exhausting. Be willing to take up your own battles and rely on us for support instead of dumping everything in our lap and sitting back to watch us work.

10. What do the words yield, affection, and empowerment mean to you these days?

Yield: Pause, think, reflect, allow others the right-of-way instead of always charging headfirst into a situation. … It’s going. To be. OK.

Affection: This is the tender, often-unseen part of being an Eight that needs to be brought to the forefront. This will help others better relate to and understand us.

Empowerment: We are already empowered. We need to use our Eight-ness to empower others and support them in the process.

Marisa was born and raised in the DFW Metroplex and tended to be a strong-willed child, always taking up for others and going toe-to-toe with authority figures. She only started to learn about the Enneagram in the last year—and that she’s an Eight—so her past and present are starting to make infinitely more sense. It’s also become clear why she chased after a profession in the fields of law enforcement and public service. Marisa is proud to say she’s the first in her family to obtain a Masters degree (MBA) and is a rabid and unapologetic Shake Shack fan, having visited 30 locations in 22 cities across 9 states, the District of Columbia, and 2 countries (as of publication). She loves to travel, but a government paycheck just isn’t sufficient enough to pay for the amount she needs to support her wanderlust. With less than 7 years to go before reaching full retirement eligibility, Marisa is looking forward to a second career where she can put her MBA to use and make fat stacks so she can travel the world (and visit more Shake Shack locations).

You can find Marisa on Twitter at @MarisaM_TX and online at marisaunleashed.wordpress.com.

Jose A. Noguera

1. In what ways do you use your easy access to anger for good? What are some healthy outlets (when not saving the world or protecting others) for your anger? I think I can summarize it in one word: Accountability. I think my access to anger allows me to hold myself and others accountable whenever I think we’re not living up to some standard. My ready ability to tap into accountability makes it easy to call myself and others out for being less than stellar— as well as standing up and fighting against things I don’t agree with. 

2. What do Eights look for in others? What do we have to live up to? Where do we fall short? One of the most important things I look for in others is “effort” or “drive.” I absolutely understand that not everyone is capable of accomplishing the same things, but I think the one thing that matters most is that someone tried. I respect people who don’t make excuses for themselves, and I look up to those who are willing to try their best no matter what. 

3. What are three things you wished people understood about Eights? I’m going to answer this from my perspective, but I really wish people didn’t think I was angry simply because I become very emotional in a conversation. I feel like my passion for things immediately gets received as anger, and that’s a little frustrating. I also think people don’t realize how unaware of ourselves we Eights can be. I always catch myself telling people “I really didn’t mean that that way” and I think part of that stems from how unaware I am of how I come off to people. Essentially, I wish people were capable of judging others based on their intent. Lastly, I wish others understood how self-critical we are. The one thing I find common about most of the Eights I know, is that we beat ourselves up endlessly, and I wish people saw that a little bit more. 

4. Do you have any spiritual practices and does your Enneagram number influence what you’re drawn to spiritually? I’m not particularly religious, but I am absolutely drawn to things that make me feel more present in my body. Exercise and physical activity (hiking, jiu jitsu, skiing) really help me be present and help me be aware of myself in space. I think over time, as I’ve integrated, I’ve begun taking care of myself physically more and more, and that’s only helped me grow better. 

5. What happens to your closest relationship when you move in stress to your Arrow of Type Five? What happens to your closest relationships when you move in health/integration to your Arrow of Type Two? My closest relationships take a beating whenever I stress out. I think one of our worst characteristics is how self-forgetting we are, and whenever I’m stressed out I typically become insufferable. Anyone  around me could become an outlet for some of the stress I’m carrying, and that’s typically not healthy.  Nonetheless, if I’m integrating, my closest relationships shine. I work tirelessly to raise the people around me up an to push them to be better versions of themselves. I like thinking of this internally as my  own “amplifier” effect, since I’m capable of bringing out the best in those around me. 

6. Speak about what it’s like to be in the Body Triad. How does your body absorb and process the daily life of your existence? The Body Triad is great hahaha! I love being so in tune with my self, and I think something in particular I like about being an Enneagram Eight is how I’m typically pretty self-aware most of the time. Nonetheless, being a member of the gut triad makes anger an accessible emotion, and I’d describe my typical emotional state to be “slightly annoyed at something all the time.” I feel full of energy, with a deep willingness to push myself to my limits, especially if I am passionate about what I’m doing. If  lose faith or belief in what I’m doing, then I really struggle to invest in it. 

7. What do you think would happen if you were to let the soft, loving, vulnerable side of your heart be known to the world at large? Hmm, I’m sure that would be good in theory, but that feels really difficult. I wonder what other Eights will respond to this, but damn, I feel like I can only do that with a select group of people that I trust enough. 

8. What is your advice for parents of Type Eight children? Man, I think the best thing you can do is to invite them to own their little lives. My parents raised me that way, and even from a young age I was aware of myself. I think by tapping into that core desire and drive of Eights to be independent, you can help your Eight child move toward integration earlier in life by empowering them. We’re quite stubborn people, and if you work to steer the drive, the huffing and puffing, and the energy toward helping them grow that might reduce the amount of times you butt heads. 

I am a 25 y.o. engineer working in the Energy Industry in Process Control and Optimization. I typically never back down from a challenge, and I love opportunities to demonstrate my skills (not out of narcissism, but purely out of enjoyment). I love pushing the limits of what I’m capable of, and that reflects in everything I do. 
In my free time, I read, go to the gym, play guitar, cook, or look for new investment opportunities. In the past year, I started a nonprofit intended to teach people about economic freedom and the merits of capitalism. I recently took up Brazilian Jiu Jitsu to add to my physical training, and I absolutely love skiing and hiking. Relationships are incredibly important to me. I strive to be able to provide for my parents and my close family so that if needed, they don’t have to worry about anything financially. In the long term, my goal is to affect and improve my community and the people around me. I’d like to enable all of those in my life to be better versions of themselves so they too can achieve their own goals. 

You can find Jose on Twitter at @Janoguera94 and Instagram at @Janoguera.

Enneagram Type Eight Interview: Sheila Hozhabri

Enneagram Type Eight Interview: Sheila Hozhabri

Posted on by melissakircher

Hello everyone, and welcome back to Enneagram Paths! Today, we have an interview with Sheila Hozhabri, a digital marketing powerhouse, to talk about her experiences as an Enneagram Type Eight.

Let’s take a quick look at the description of a Type Eight by Dr. Jerome D. Lubbe, whose new book, Whole Identity, outlines a brain-based take on the Enneagram. It’s fascinating! Click on the book title to check out his entire site and grab a copy of this groundbreaking Enneagram theory for yourself!

Dr. Lubbe uses the term ‘Disruption’ to summarize Type Eights. Of Eights, he says, “The innate human capacity reflected in [Eight] nature is the energy of disruption. What [Eight] nature seeks and is motivated by is autonomy. [Their] primary style of engagement is action. Positive limbic attachments reinforce a sense of being in control and self-sufficient. Negative limbic attachments are triggered fastest by dominance or oppression. When overwhelmed, fatigue expresses as panic. The primary and practical application for [Eight] nature is to breathe and practice stillness. The healthy [Eight] nature in each of us is the most gifted at modeling our human capacity for growth.” (Whole Identity, Dr. Jerome D. Lubbe, pg. 54)

Thanks, Sheila, for being here today and sharing with us what it means for you to live life as an Enneagram Eight!

Sheila Hozhabri

1. In what ways do you use your Type Eight easy access to anger for good? This is a difficult one. I’m not sure I’ve fully honed in on how to use it for good, but I’d say standing up for those who can’t/won’t stand up for themselves. What are some healthy outlets (when not saving the world or protecting others) for your anger? The most healthy outlet I’ve found for my anger is boxing! I started doing it over a year ago and I can’t say enough about what a positive impact it’s had on my life. The best way I can describe it is that it exhausts me, and pours water over the anger flames. 

2. What do Eights look for in others? What do we have to live up to? Where do we fall short? Loyalty. I don’t let a lot of people in, and definitely not quickly, but I am a good judge of character. Everyone I meet is living up to how I’ve judged them. If they fall short of my expectations, I can take it personally, and question my judgement. I’ve been learning to grow and accept people in my life when they fall short, but a big hurdle for me is betrayal. That one is hard to get over. 

3. What are three things you wished people understood about Eights? We’re very emotional and loving people. We’re not always angry. We’ll be your Ride-Or-Die for life—if you don’t let us down! 


4. Do you have any spiritual practices and does your Enneagram number influence what you’re drawn to spiritually? No spiritual practices, but I have gotten into meditation over the past year. Honestly, boxing has become my spiritual practice!


5. What happens to your closest relationship when you move in Stress to your Arrow of Type Five? In stress, I shut people out to protect myself and my heart. I feel like I need to deal with stressful things on my own, so it’s difficult for me to let others in to help me deal. What happens to your closest relationships when you move in Health/Integration to your Arrow of Type Two? I am more open, vulnerable, and forgiving. I feel like an enlightened floating yogi, who can take on the worries/stresses/concerns of those around me and help them find the grace to deal—because I’m in a graceful place myself. 


6. Speak about what it’s like to be in the Body Triad. How does your body absorb and process the daily life of your existence? For a long time I felt like I had a ball of anger in the pit of my stomach, and I couldn’t figure out why. Sometimes it would get bigger, other times smaller. I carry all my stress in my shoulders, so I need to get massages regularly! HaHa. I’ve become a huge fan of box breathing to help release some of what has been absorbed. And of course, the boxing helps release that, as well. I can happily say that the ball of anger feels very controlled and small thanks to these techniques. 


7. What do you love about your number? What do you dislike about your number? I didn’t realize that so many people have an issue saying ‘no’, it’s something I’ve never struggled with. Then, I figured out that it’s a trait of being a Type Eight, and I just LOVED that. I dislike the anger aspect of being an Eight, and how what I consider to be regular expression can be miss-interpreted as anger. (Melissa: This is big. Take note. Many Eights don’t feel or see the anger they express. For them, it’s just regular talking/communication. Sometimes, it’s not actual anger, but energy or bluntness and Eights can feel grossly misunderstood.)


8. What do you think would happen if you were to let the soft, loving, vulnerable side of your heart be known to the world at large? For most of my life, I would have said that I would get taken advantage of or be left upset/heartbroken because showing that side of me is revealing my weakness. I just found out about a year ago that I had difficulty with vulnerability, and it took me a while to even figure out what being vulnerable means and how to practice it. I’m currently reading Brené Brown’s book “Daring Greatly” which has opened up my eyes and heart to fully understanding vulnerability and shame and how being vulnerable isn’t a weakness. 


9. What is your advice for parents of Type Eight (presenting) children? Know that what is perceived as anger probably isn’t. As a kid, I would usually shut down when I got really angry. Avoid “calm down” or “Don’t get so mad/upset”. Instead, acknowledge that the child is feeling an emotion and help them walk through it. That might look like going for a walk, taking deep breaths, or being silent until they can form their thoughts clearly before talking about what’s wrong.

 
10. What do the words yield, affection, and empowerment mean to you these days? Yield – Breathe. Don’t be trigger happy. Take a minute. Take breaths. Form your words and then speak/react. Affection – Speak how you’re feeling (good or bad), because closing yourself off is only hurting you in the long run. Empowerment – You don’t always have to carry the burden of the load. You can also trust others not to drop it.

Sheila is a digital marketing powerhouse who has been responsible for managing several successful digital platforms for pop artists. She is a driven, creative professional who is destined for a long, dynamic career in the entertainment industry. Sheila developed at love for the music industry in her teens and moved to Nashville to attend Belmont University in 2002. While at Belmont, she took a Comparative Spirituality and World Religions class where she first learned about the Enneagram. Upon graduating from Belmont, Sheila worked in artist management for 3 years before moving to London to get her masters at the University of London. In 2013, Sheila moved to Los Angeles and began working for a digital marketing company handling digital marketing strategy for major pop acts. 

Instagram: @sheila

Twitter: @sheila_h

*Cover Photo by Franck V. on Unsplash