“I have a habit of letting my imagination run away from me. It always comes back though . . . drenched with possibilities.” ― I love talking to Type Fours, (because I have a Four Wing and I’m so special!) but I especially love Type Four men because they are super interesting. When thinking about society in America, the outstanding qualities of a Four aren’t much encouraged. Someone who identifies as male, who can make space for pain, who lives authentically, who feels the full spectrum of emotion, who dives into the deep questions of life, and who can love imagination and creativity…these are not qualities the Western world deems worthy in men. And yet, these attributes in men are SO NEEDED! I’m convinced, the more men get in touch with their emotional lives and their authentic selves, the more healthy society will be.
I’m excited to hear from you, Eric. Welcome!
1. Emotions are dominant for Fours as part of the Heart Triad. How do emotions affect your daily life? Work, friendships, partnership, kids?
Emotions are huge for us in our family. It took me a long time to understand my emotions and to accept them as part of who I am, but not the definition of who I am. When I worked for a big company, my emotions would get in the way as I struggled to explain why I had feelings about particular decisions. In a dull, boring financial firm my feelings were not convincing arguments. That felt pretty bad. Once I learned that my emotions are indicator lights that should make me explore deeper, it became easier to express my feelings and find my voice. This is true with my wife and children as well. On good days I’m able to set aside my emotions and attend to theirs. On bad days, well, let’s just say the feels are everywhere.
2. Are you a parent? How does your Type influence parenting?
I am the father of a girl and three boys. Being a Type Four parent means I’m the fun dad who gets on the floor and wrestles, plans a surprise, or encourages them to use their imagination. One of my strengths is that I am able to see my children’s creativity and encourage it. My daughter wants to be a writer. My parents never would have encouraged me to go into the arts for a living. But I tell my daughter to go for it as long as she understands the business as well as the art. My kids get the benefit of belief in their creative ability. On the downside, I can also be quite moody and emotional. Sometimes, I have days when I am in the dumps and simply do not want to hear them. I imagine that it feels arbitrary for them and hope they do not equate my emotions with having to earn love from me.
3. What happens when you’re stressed and go along your Arrow to Type Two? What happens when you’re in a healthy place and go along your Arrow to Type One?
Interesting question! For years, I thought of myself as a Type Two. I was a helper, a shepherd, but never satisfied. I guess I was just stressed all the time. But it does come in handy when there is stress in the home, and I can see the needs and help find a resolution. I’m still trying to figure out what it’s like to move to a Type One. I love it when I’m working on a project and tweaking every detail to make it just so. Maybe that’s moving in the right direction. One thing I’ve had to learn, though, is the value of iteration. Expecting perfection on the first try held me back for many years. Once I allowed that I could try, learn, and get better, the lid came off, and I’m working in my zone of genius more.
4. How does Envy play out in your interactions with people? Do you find yourself comparing your life, experiences, career, etc. to others?
YES! Envy is a huge problem for me. I often ask “why not me?” when I see all the cool things others are doing. Realizing that (1) social media does not reflect reality, and (2) everyone pays dues to get where they are, has helped me tremendously. This quote from Biz Stone speaks to me: “Timing, perseverance, and ten years of trying will eventually make you look like an overnight success.”
5. Talk a little about the desire to be unique. Why is this so important to you? Is it important? How do you try to be a unique person in daily life?
Oh my, yes! The tension between being normal and being unique is so difficult to live with. In middle school, I was bullied for being weird (I was kinda nerdy) and that fueled this desire to belong while never feeling like I do. I’ve realized that there are situations where I feel I don’t belong, but the feeling is mine, not anyone else’s. They accept me, and I don’t know it. Being aware of that is super important for me.
I’ve also learned to accept the ways that I want to be unique. I left my corporate job to start an online business. Most people thought I was totally crazy. Maybe I am! But I knew I had to do it or I would regret it forever. Embracing that kind of uniqueness actually helps me love being me. It may not work out, but I love that I tried.
6. Talk about what the words Discipline and Objectivity mean to you today.
My two least favorite words! Discipline is always a challenge. Lately, I’m learning to rely on others to help with that. For instance, I’ve partnered with a friend who is good at being disciplined to create a business course for soul care practitioners. I just liked the idea and would have been happy to have imagined it and moved on. But he wanted to actually create it. His drive is helping us accomplish something together.
I also learned about discipline when I started my podcast, Halfway There, in 2016. The show is about the ups and downs of the spiritual journey, and I really love hearing the stories people share with me. That love drives me to keep episodes releasing every week. Once I tapped into my desire, discipline was still work, but not hard.
Objectivity is a myth.
7. What does the phrase, “You are good enough,” mean to you?
I wish I felt that way. This is a message I have to receive from God often. If I’m not careful, any criticism feeds the “not good enough” monster in my head.
8. Are there any spiritual practices you are drawn to as a Type Four?
I love imaginative prayer! Going through the spiritual exercises of Ignatius of Loyola was life-changing for me. I have a B.A. in Biblical Studies and a Master of Divinity and can get super academic with Scripture. But learning to imagine Jesus really connected to my heart. Suddenly, the Scripture came alive in my mind, and I fell in love with God in a fresh way.
9. How has learning about your Enneagram Type impacted your life and relationships? Has it changed the way you view yourself or others?
I am learning how to love and accept myself and let others be who they are. Learning how Fours and Sixes relate has been helpful because my wife is the latter. My dreams rubbed her fears raw and created a lot of tension. Learning that fear was her issue changed my expectations when I’m dreaming. It helps so much to let her off the hook for making my dreams a reality by saying, “I just need to envision this for a moment.”
Eric Nevins is the host of Halfway There Podcast, a show that has honest conversations with ordinary Christians about today’s Christian experience. His first contemplative exercise, Jesus is Willing: An 8 Day Experience in Mark 1:40-45 is available now.
*Cover Photo by Teddy Kelley on Unsplash
“I envy people that know love. That have someone who takes them as they are.” ― 
There has also been a divine sweetness in realizing my own story helps me to let go of envy. I am special (said like a true Four) and as I create from my soul, I see more and more that I truly am needed in this world. In realizing this truth, there is no room for envy.
I think I might be a Five Wing, but I’m unsure about it. Sometimes it seems like I fit the description of a Three Wing and sometimes a Five wing. I can be both social and private. Sometimes I create with an audience in mind and sometimes I create for myself. The thing that draws me to the Five Wing is the fact that I love to research. When something sparks my interest, I’ll read several books, search about it on Youtube or podcasts, and follow experts on the subject on social media. What I discover from researching fuels an inward fire that impacts what I create. From this fire also comes strength, like that of a Five’s growth towards a healthy Type Eight. As a Four, I desire to have the strength of an Eight. If that’s possible, that is so worth the hard work of the Enneagram!
“I’ll stop wearing black when you make a darker color.” — Fall Out Boy
Type Fours are often quite creative; the artists and writers and musicians and photographers and dreamers of the world. Though any type may be an artist, Fours are the most common because they desire authenticity and unique expression above all else. They want to be the truest version of themselves and bring an idiosyncratic perspective to whatever they do. This can show up in their outward appearance; Fours usually have a certain aesthetic in the way they dress. They will have kooky, artsy, or highly fashionable clothes or an avant-garde hairstyle—whatever they feel expresses their inner-self best. Some Fours go through a “goth” phase, being drawn to dark makeup and clothing.
Fours in autopilot get lost in longing. They long for love above all else and feel that there is something broken or missing inside of them that prevents them from finding or keeping love. They fabricate an ideal of love and can lose themselves in fantasies about it. This fantasizing fulfills them—but just for a while—and then the need for real love takes over and they search for it in others. The tricky thing is that they’re almost addicted to this longing; it’s like a cat and mouse game inside their hearts. The longing itself is what feels special, but once they find love, they quickly become dissatisfied with messy reality and push their lovers away. Back and forth, around and around they go.
Arrow to One in Health